tangle quartet has the knobs-as-attenuators vca thing you’re looking for, it’s great.

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I may not be understanding what you’re asking for, but, both of my VCAs with attenuation knobs (MI Veils and Zlob Vnicursal VCA) do the following:

  • With no CV controlling a VCA channel, the knob acts as an attenuator of the input signal, whether that’s a CV or audio signal. In other words, the CV control of the VCA is normaled to 5v, and the knob attenuates the 5v control of how open the VCA is. In other other words, it acts like an attenuator.
  • With CV coming in to control the VCA channel, the knob attenuates the degree to which the CV control affects the VCA being open. In practice, this also attenuates the volume of the output, since the signal opening and closing the VCA has a lower peak. I understand this as ‘normal’ VCA behavior, but I may be wrong.

In terms of mixing, I believe the Tangle Quartet and Vnicursal act similarly, in that the channels are summed to a sum/mix channel, but can be taken out of the sum and output individually by patching a channel’s output.

Veils mixes a little differently, in that summing happens top-to-bottom, and outputting from a channel breaks that summing. So in other words, if you have 4 inputs into Veils, and you patch out of outputs 2 and 4, channels 1 and 2 will be mixed in the 2 output, and channels 3 and 4 will be mixed in the 4 output.

AFAIK none of these allow a total control of volume of a mixed output from one knob. In other words, for Tangle Quartet & Vnicursal, you can’t control the sum/mix volume from one knob, and with Veils, you can have your channel 2 knob fully closed/CCW, and channel 1 will still output from output 2 if that’s how you have it patched.

I’m fond of the Vnicursal, mostly because it can be DIY’d for about $70-80 and it’s 6 channels in 8hp. That said, it’s laid out a little confusingly and the ergonomics using the trim pots for attenuation leaves a little to be desired. I used to not understand the attraction of the Tangle Quartet but thinking about it a bit more, it’s compact and ergonomic and clean, like most of ALMs designs.

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I’m sort of surprised, I thought this was just how all mixing VCAs work (re attenuation), but digging a little that seems to be not always the case.

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You mean the module on the very left? It’s a Mutable Instrument Ears, basically a pimped Music Thing Modular Mikrophonie. — And you are right, often I’m using it for ‘tactile’ input. Usually tapping or scratching, but gently pushing works too (the PCB panel flexes a bit which is enough to get the piezo pickup going) . Its envelope follower creates some nice CV curves …

I love that many of the modules are ‘modeless’. Means they are fairly open to what they do (e.g. from VCO to LFO to envelope to clock source etc.). That way the same system can be a myriad of things. Since I’m mostly exploring, this is what I was aiming for …

Are you saying that, when you have CV patched to control the VCA on the VCA4p, the knobs do nothing at all?

If that’s the case, that’s … an interesting choice.

I read that on the older Vnicursal model the knobs actually controlled offset with a cv present, but has since been changed to attenuation like you mention.

Not sure if this exists in any other modules out there, but another interesting variation…

I remember reading something like that as well, and also some of the build guides mentioned jumpers on the back to control either that behavior or to choose AC- or DC-coupling. I think the current versions do not offer those jumpers though, at least for the DIY version.

I can see arguments for both but the current design (attenuated) feels the most conventionally useful.

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They might adjust the CV slightly, but I can’t get the voltage to get to zero when CV is present and the knob is fully counter-clockwise.

Designed for interfacing with the DAW, analogue experimental synthesis workbench.

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That actually sounds like bleed. Are there trim pots on the back for adjusting response levels?

Curious what folks would do to this idea…
I’ve already got:

  • Make Noise powered skiff,
  • All the Mannequins except for W/ which is on pre-order

I will be getting Grid, Ansible and Teletype as soon as I can…

Does it make any sense to have both the DPLPG and the LxD? if not, which one to lose?

Does the URA make sense? I was considering a Planar2 in that slot perhaps.

Or should I think about getting some TT extenders?

I am completing a Make Noise Shared System, and have a Mantis with some other cool stuff, so this isn’t my only toolbox, but I wanted to have a skiff mostly devoted to Monome and Mannequins.

Grateful for any ideas/insights…

Thanks!

I like it! It’s similar to mine upthread. I do kind of miss a dedicated noise source (although actually Just Friends can do a good impression of it) and having the foot-switch control would be pretty cool.

I don’t know anything about the DPLPG other than it’s popular here, but ~you can never have too many LPGs~ or something. I will say it’s worth thinking about how often you’d like Just Friends to be a sound source, since if so I think you don’t have any envelope generators for those patches (well, beyond Teletype, which would be a little fiddly imo). You do have another case for those patches, I guess.

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The LPGS are very different - I have both. I favor the lower channel of the LxD when I’m using it and I think overall the module has a more ‘woody’ sound depending on what you feed into it. It’s also interesting to use as a filter if you put an offset into the CV in. Meng Qi LPG is great too, more straightforward. What do you plan on doing with the rest of the space?

Also, some of what the URA does can be emulated with the Teletype.

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I really love my LxD and don’t see why you shouldn’t have the DPLPG as well. if you want a more straightforward dual VCA in 2hp i like Zlobs model (sum out is nice) but 2hp has one too (of course). i found it very useful in my last 104hp build (see above) too have 4+ VCA/LPG channels.

URA v Planar could be answered by “what kind of control do you want over your patch?”

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I’m currently pondering Planar + URA, Planar + Sport Mod, or Planar + both. But to your point, yeah, they’re pretty different elements of control. I think it depends on how immediate and gestural you’d want your workflow to be.

Did you build yours yet?

What would you like for envelopes?

Another Just Friends?
:sunny:

nope, I think my “build order” is full version of Ableton, Grid, then finish the module swapping, so it’ll be a while. I do have it with Clouds instead of Ansible, second Mangrove and second W/ though, and that’s already plenty fun.

I really like the Maths and Just Friends paradigms for envelopes, but those are probably too big :sweat_smile:

Ordered an A-171-2 so this is the current state of things. The 8hp 1u blanks are going to house some FSRs, and the 6hp blank will have a toggle/off/momentary switch for passing signals through, if I can find one of those switches anywhere.

Considering next moves, and maybe a more complex random module like an A-149.

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