2 x Mangrove vs complex oscillator


Thanks @kingcons and @saintcloud. The patch is simply maths in quadrature with the two unity outs into the formants of both mangroves in constant wave mode. Barrel CCW and formant at nine/nine something to trigger pitch divisions. All outputs from the mangroves go to the sputnik mixer while the square of the left one is multed to sync of the right one. The harmonics are generated from an unsynced triangle LFO that comes from an o_C (one channel of quadraturia) and goes into the pitch input of the right mangrove. I think I have said everything. Love this module, but now I want the others. Too bad that in Europe they cost so much!



Hi, old thread, but I’m curious if anyone has an opinion on @rainlet 's question of the about the utility of two Mangroves vs a Mangrove and another oscillator? Specifically I’ve been using a dixie for complex oscillator duties but I’m wondering if I’ve been missing out on something special and would benefit from adding an additional Mangrove?



i’m quite happy with two Just Friends ahahahah



My current go-to complex oscillator is a pair of mangroves. But all great options regarding mixing a mangrove with a dixie, sto, friends etc. just different flavours. Mangrove is definitely my favourite modulator though.



I’ll be the odd one out, and say that when I had a Mangrove I just didn’t feel like it dealt with audio rate modulation all that well; the FM depth in particular seemed quite shallow.

I’d take the complex oscillator any day. I don’t have a DPO specifically, but I do have a Hertz Donut and a Double Helix; my two favorite VST synths are Aalto and Buchla Easel V, and E370 and Plaits and Rings all do FM.

I thought Mangrove had a lovely sound on its own, but also found I could almost replicate it (not quite so sweet-sounding, but close) with a squarewave VCO, Function, and a saturating VCA. In a rack already crowded with sound sources, I felt it wasn’t making a unique enough contribution.



I wonder how this compares to the more established complex vco’s soundwise. Price and features are great in comparison



The Double Helix is a bit weird:

– Most COs have triangle-core oscillators, but this uses saw-core. It has no triangle outputs, and FM is exponential only (no linear). Using the secondary’s saw output, instead of the default sine output, for FM can give some lovely results. But for some reason, they didn’t provide sync inputs though saw-core VCOs are particularly good at that IMHO.
– There’s no “follow” circuit built in; the secondary and primary VCO pitch inputs are completely separate. I usually use a Stackable for that.
– They didn’t provide a control to offset the pulse width, just to modulate it, so sometimes you have to patch that separately and a bit awkwardly.
– The modulation routing system otherwise is pretty great.
– The built-in wavefolder and LPG complement each other, and the tone of the module as a whole, very nicely; they have a unique, unusual sound.
– There’s a lot of crosstalk and unexpected interactions in the module. It can feel kind of broken and wrong at first, but I’ve come to embrace it as part of its charm and character.



I love both so much. As a start a DPO would increase the sonicest pallete then add another mangrove later! There different sounding a nought to warrant both and free up extra modulation routing! Dpo final out is dreamy when used well! It FMs great! Mangrove has the instability and BEUTY. All in another class of there own!



I’ve always loved braids and no have plaits. But the sound of the 0 coast gives me so much joy, I lately wonder if I’d enjoy an analog vco more.
Not comparabel I know. And off topic :smiley:



OK, I have 2 Mangroves now, just starting to work with both, I sold all my Complex oscillators way before I got the Mangroves, (Sputnik Dual, DPO, Verbos Complex, Shapeshifter, Harmonic osc-so I’ve owned them all) the functionality of Complex oscillators for $500 is not worth the cost in my opinion, I’d rather have 2 or 3 simpler VCO’s for variety. I have appx. 6 other single VCO’s. I also have a Buchla system, so a lot of the complex VCO’s are covered.
There’s a problem though… the tuning of the Mangroves.
This was a problem when I first owned a Mangrove a year ago and sold it. They don’t seem to blend well with other VCO’s I am using, there is a lot of obvious wave/tuning drift, I guess due to the Formant filters in them. Just my 2 cents. I will keep both Mangroves for now, it’s still too early in their ‘return’ to sell again.



just curious, what difficulties with tuning do you have?



I am very sensitive to pitch and tuning, if they are out, it hurts my ears. More so, tuning both Mangroves together, without using sync, I want different tunings, not unisons,



ahhh, that kind. fair enough! I was just tuning my Mangrove to my other synths earlier and found it remarkably simple, hence the question :+1:



yes, thirds, fifths, sixths, etc., it is not the most stable oscillator, as I said because of the twisted formants.
I had a similar issue with the Verbos Complex, it sounded queasy and drifting.



interesting! that hasn’t been my experience at all. to my ears, Mangrove stayed perfectly in tune over the course of the looper piece I recorded a month ago. granted, I’m usually not bothered by variations on the order of a few cents.



Agree, not a problem on a few cents of pitch being off, desirable even.
Let me add, I am really trying to like having 2 Mangroves, I’ll give them a try for a while, modular is based on individual taste as we all know, nothing fits everyone. The biggest challenge I found in modular the past few years is finding the right combination of modules that blend together the best.



It is worth the time and effort to calibrate/recalibrate! I had a similar experience, my mangrove drifted into queasy territory a few months after purchasing it, and recalibration made it much more pleasant to use with other oscs.



I’ve gone through some trouble with my pair of Mangroves, but I’m in good shape now. Here’s some of the wisdom I’ve collected on this forum:

  1. Attach them to your voltage source first and make sure that source isn’t outputting any voltage (set to 0v). The pitch jumps a little when the volt/octave is plugged in. This is a known ‘flaw’ that Trent has acknowledged.

  2. They drift a little bit, but are super stable after an hour, faster when the weather is warmer probably. You should be somewhat okay after about 10-15 minutes.

  3. If you find that the pitch doesn’t track as well as you’d like between octaves, you need to trim/calibrate, which can be a tricky process. I got some tips for this :



thanks, will try, I have the Mordax DATA - spectrum analyzer feature.



i’ve a pair of Just Friends and i feel good :slight_smile:
ahahahha…btw had mangrove and had the same feeling about paring it with others vco, i prefer a couple of STO + cold mac for example

but if i’ve to choose a complex now i’ll take Instruo CS-L