2 x Mangrove vs complex oscillator


#102

I use STO with Mangrove all the time…but usually in my patches Mangrove is FM’ing STO, not the other way around (I think I started trying this because @Galapagoose suggested it in another thread somewhere…). Interesting results are possible either way!


#103

I have a Mangrove and would love another. I just purchased a Cš-L from Instruo and it’s really something. The internal routing, two styles of PWM, sub oscillator, I love it.

And then I saw this and had to try one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k-7ZCteiAw

Don’t wanna deter anyone from 2xMangroves but thought this might be the right fit for some.


#104

Just re-bought Verbos Complex Osc. and Harmonic Osc. after selling them last year.
The Verbos analog is a powerful sonically big sound that was missing from my digital etc wavetable VCO’s in my system. I have a Buchla system that I can compare it to for sonic bigness.

Mannequins…I currently have 2 Mangroves, 1 Sisters, 1 Friends, 1 Cold Mac.
Sold ‘w/’ for now, until they iron out the bugs, its unique for sure.


#105

late to this but yes it does. Green3 (FM) with everything CCW will give you a plain ol sine.


#106

Simple video demonstrating my patch:


#107

Removed…


#108

Woah, thank you! Definitely getting me inspired to get out of my normal patching routine. Thank you so much for this video!


#109

Removed…


#110

Removed…


#111

I use a 2 x Mangrove setup with my modular most of the time. I’m considering getting 2 more. or even more! (dreams of a tortuous to manage poly-mangrove!). I find the Mangrove is like an instrument unto itself - and one that rewards lots of practice, like any instrument, though moreso than any other oscillator i’ve had.
All that said, the double mangrove doesn’t, for me, function as a complex oscillator. The saw core and formant madness and the design just make it something so different that it makes no sense to me to ask it to duplicate a CO. But now I find myself bored by pretty much any other (analog) oscillator anyway. There’s just so much character and so much to work with once you combine multiple Mangroves, especially with other Mannequins modules.
I recall getting some great results from incorporating an FM Aid into the Mannequins mix as well.
Forget “you can never have enough VCAs.” You can never have enough Mangroves!


#112

So here we go. Second Mangrove arrived 2 weeks ago! I already have the DPO… 1st things 1st - I will be keep both Mangroves and the DPO no questions asked! They offer lots of colour and have completely different characters as Complex VCO’s. I have had DPO for a few years and know it inside out (no TS-L or HO back then), This is why I didn’t ever change it, I can patch it up and get musical results quickly. Saying that now, When I 1st got the DPO it took time to unleash its potential. It was my first CO and I tended to push it to crazy FM very quickly at first… It took time to find the sweet spots… I feel its more instantaneous to the dual Mangrove setup due to the fact it has lots of attenuators and the FM bus is already normalised… Mangroves have also after a couple of weeks started to open up more and more to me. My 1st few patches here like, Hey this is different… Using cold mac in conjunction with optomix and shifting inverting signal mingler along with QPLFO are working really well for me. I tend to cross patch through the SISM and CM and bring in other modulation sources through these. Wow, Definitely more work that DPO in terms of patching but they all sing well together and provide enough differences to warrant keeping them all! So far 2 Mangroves is a huge thumbs up and here to stay for sure. Im hapy with these, The DPO and also I have a Verbos HO, All unique in there own rights and make for some serious fun for sure!


#113

so 2 mangroves = fm synth aka COMPLEX OSCILLATOR? Sorry for what is no doubt a boon question


#114

it’s taken me a while but i’ve recently found a great fondness for the warm tones of my Furthrrrr Generator. i was very used to the workflow of my DPO, which is also beloved and used in almost every patch, that it took some repatching my brain to get the FG to make the sounds i knew it capable of. i think the primary breakthrough was the addition of an oscilloscope to my studio; viewing the waveform while manipulating various controls gave me a more complete understanding of their use.


#115

Not quite. A complex oscillator is comprised of two oscillators that are internally routed to each other, with an FM bus (a VCA) between them to control the index of the modulation between the carrier and modulator. Also, there’s usually (always?) a waveshaper built-in to at least one of the outputs and the oscillators can be synced, again internally, to receive the same frequency input.

You can probably see this most easily on the Verbos Complex Oscillator- the FM bus is the black section to the left between the two big frequency knobs with the sync switch at the top and the waveshaper is the black section on the right. Basically, the same results are achievable with two single VCO’s that have sync inputs, but would require patching and maybe additional modules, like a waveshaper and/or a VCA if the VCO’s don’t have them built-in.

Back to your question, though: while Mangroves are super deep VCO’s with internal waveshaping via the Formant and Barrel knobs, a VCA in the Air input, and the ability to sync, there is no bus tying them together, so two of them doesn’t exactly constitute a complex oscillator. However, a little patching will get you there quicker than a pairing of many other single oscillators because they’re so dense. The FM they can achieve is subjective to taste though; as I’m sure you’ve read in this thread, it’s not very traditional. Personally, I think they sound pretty cool :slight_smile: .

Hope that helped.


#116

Immensely and thank you for the depth to your answer that’s helps me understand. I’m in love with the character as it suits my energy but for now I will focus on one and a just friends with cold mac but it’s great to know and understand my option. I want to stick to 104 hp so knowing in the near future I can extend my palette with another mangrove is exciting.


#117

dove into two mangroves today for the first time and decided to try this patch, along with three sisters, optomix, and a little help from tape delay and oto BAM.

I just hit record and wiggled away for a while- not meant to be a piece of music, just a recorded experimenting session. hopefully this is helpful to some to understand what things can sound like with double mangrove. so far I’m in love. :heart_eyes:


#118

Just need a cheeky beat and your set for an awesome techno pounder


#119

I’m at 2 Mangroves but can imagine having more :slight_smile:


#120

Simple generative patch with one Mangrove modulating the other. Occasionally the stars align and Barrel modulation causes sounds like an actual 90s techno bass preset before sliding out of alignment again. I wish I could have reigned in the fuckery a bit.


#121

wow, this is great. is there a delay line somewhere or is it all direct feedback?