Ableton Live 10


Only see a couple people talking about how great Wavetable is. Let it now be three… it is a lot of fun. @IcaroFerre curious what you mean by it needing more modulation options… do you mean more envelopes / lfos to route? Or more audio parameters to control?


It’s a surround panner, but I don’t think that necessarily means it supports multichannel audio files. Native multi output support perhaps a better way of describing it. It was confirmed by Robert Henke on a facebook post. There will however be a “workaround” for working with multichannel files. Not sure what this is yet


I personally think they could’ve added as least one modulation sequencer and an option to trigger the envelopes at a certain rate (instead of just looping after a complete cycle).
I do think limitations are important and all but I just feel that, when it comes to wavetables, it’s always better to have as many LFOs, envelopes and sequencers as possible.
While most of that could be achieved with Max for Live devices, I still think that having more built-in options would end up providing a better user experience.

On the other hand, I do think that it has plenty of audio parameters to be modulated.


For modulation sequencers / LFO, etc there’s M4L. And M4L is pretty much “built-in” in Ableton 10. And by default you will find LFO, sequencers, shapers, etc.

It doesn’t make sense to them to bring non M4L modulators since that’s one of the core reasons for having it integrated. Which is also why I really think M4L should come in standard not just suite


Yeah, like I said, it’s definitely possible to use M4L stuff to modulate whatever I want however there’s a huge difference in experience between having to look for the device I want, add it, map it, and then use it vs using something that’s already there.

There are also other key advantages for having built-in modulators:

  • Built in modulators can be applied to multiple different destinations via the Routing Matrix (with different amounts per destination) while MaxforLive modulators can usually only modulate a single parameter. To map a M4L device to multiple destinations with different amounts you’d need a 2nd device just to do that (which is fine for 1 modulator but imagine doing the same for 3 or 4 modulators).
  • They would be part of the same device on the Push (less workflow friction)
  • You could save a preset as just a Wavetable preset instead of an Instrument Rack

M4L is a great workaround but it’s definitely not the same as having additional built-in options.


I didn’t get the point about the routing matrix before. That’s a very good point :slight_smile:

And I know it’s not solving your issue on this, but I’d love a routing matrix M4L component now :smiley:


i always hated the “map” function of the M4L devices.
Especially since there always been a bug in recalling the mappings in livesets once you unmapped and remapped to another parameter. i did not check if it’s been fixed (it was confirmed by Ableton a while ago). Also the use of remote~ is quite an annoyance since you cannot map the parameter to MIDI and use the m4l lfo to modulate relatively to the set value.


I thought about this once! Used an arpeggiator in chord trigger mode going into an M4L MIDI envelope generator inside a muted chain parallel to the main instrument. With the arpeggiator in free mode you should be able to retrigger the envelope at whatever rate you set in ms. Only problem is using it on audio channels or with long releases.


If I want 3 envelopes repeating at different rates then I’d need 3 envelope devices, 3 arpegiators, etc. And if I wanted to map the envelopes to multiple destinations I’d need 3 other MultiMap devices.
Haha yeah that could work except it’s a workaround that doesn’t scale very well. It’s fine for 1 or two things but it’s not optimal.
I love MaxforLive (I even make commercial M4L devices) however it’s so much work to get something like that setup just to workaround a silly limitation.
Operator can trigger each envelope at a different rate so it’s not like it’s a totally foreign concept to them.

To be honest this is such a simple thing that I hope they end up including it in the release version.
Having this option available would allow for some really cool rhythmic patches.


Just upgraded to 9 (10)…

I’d been unable to buy M4L as I was still on Live8, so when you added the price of Standard & M4L, it was simpler to go up to suite… watch out for some ableton based goals next year,

hoping the added instruments, especially Collision, take away some of the Plonk yearnings. and there is now clouds as M4L device…


Hi, could you please tell me how much you paid? I own Live 9 Standard and M4L, my upgrade price to Suite 10 is 223 euro and it’s no clear if they consider that I already own M4L…


I have the full 9 suite and paid 199. To be fair, you should pay double! :yum:


You should contact them, they might be able to give you a special price :slight_smile:


OH… maybe Ableton uses Teletype RRAND operator to estimate the upgrade costs :grinning:


£239 for Ableton 9 (10) suite upgrading from 8 with no M4L.

its a weird system, as it seems weighted towards pushing you towards suite and with the minimal improvements of 10 compared to 9, I’d say anything over €150 seems a bit steep.

for yuks, here is my previous Ableton upgrade history.

2.1.2 - Novation version (free)
4.0.0 - full version €149
8.0.0 - Standard €99
10.0.0.- Suite £239


done. Ableton + 223 euro, Roberto - 223. That’s all :roll_eyes:


Now, seeing the Beta just opened for all Live 9 users, and maybe some has already got to test it for some time. Any thoughts? Especially regarding using it with Monome devices, Max and M4L. I look forward to test the beta and get Live 10 up and running. At the same time I just got my Grid hooked up with Ableton Live 9 and M4L, having a real good time playing around with Re:Mix and such, and I guess I’m a little worried to switch things up. Is most of the existing M4L patches compatible with Live 10 and everything? Anything to be aware of?


I had some time playing with Live 10 the last couple of days and I couldn’t notice any change with the M4L monome devices and such. Actually it’s also kind of sad because I didn’t notice anything BETTER as well! But time will tell if it’s more stable and efficient. Anyway right now, for monome users, as far as I can tell, Ableton 10 is kind of a non news, I guess we’ll see more interesting things in the future with the new M4L architecture if I understood things correctly but that will take for people to actually build new things specifically for it so it’s not right now.


Will the beta exist as a separate install? I seem to remember this being the case with past betas but its been a while since I used/installed one. I don’t really want to corrupt my current install.


Yeah I have both the last 9.7.5 install + Live 10 beta, no trouble here!