FYI MIDI timing is never sample accurate. The MIDI protocol does not support any sort of actual “timing” and most USB implementations clock messages at around 1khz so there’s up to a millisecond of slop in each direction plus external processing. This is normal for MIDI. For instruments that receive MIDI and produce audio there is an additional latency as they process the MIDI message and begin to output sound so factor that too. Again nothing to do with Ableton, it’s germane to MIDI in general.

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Are you talking about audio latency or MIDI->Audio latency? They’re somewhat different beasts, but in general plugin latency compensation only applies to playing prerecorded data from a track through a plugin (including the external audio plugin) for the purposes of that audio hitting the mix bus / output of the track at the correct time.

Most plugins accurately report their latency, so again, in most cases you’ll want to leave this at 0. For the External Audio plugin, the I/O of your audio interface is already taken into account, so this value should only be the latency of the external processor itself - for instance, if you’re piping a track through an external reverb with a measured latency of 2.6ms for a given algorithm, you’d want this value to be 2.6ms.

For external MIDI, my note above about sloppy MIDI timing (in general, not just Ableton, due to both USB MIDI implementation as well as the vagaries of MIDI itself) mean that you’ll get within a ms or two at best case. In this case, the latency figure should be the delay between the unit getting a MIDI message (e.g. Note On) and the first cycle of audio coming out as a result of that message. For instance, if your Digitone takes 1.7ms after receiving the MIDI note on to begin producing audio for that note, you’d set this to 1.7ms

In both cases, this will ONLY take effect during playback of previously recorded data in order to align it with the other tracks. It will not affect the recorded position of the audio or MIDI datastream. What it literally does is send the data for that track to it’s destination that much sooner, so that after it’s gone through the unit that introduces the latency, it comes out the other end in time-alignment with where it’s “supposed” to be with respect to the other tracks. Obviously when recording there is no point in adjusting the incoming data (except as we’ve discussed previously for the input latency of the I/O device, which is handled separately), and plugin latency, which only applies after the track audio is inscribed at a specific point in time, cannot move input audio or MIDI backwards in time to solve the latency issue, so it cannot be expected to make any difference whatsover when the track input monitoring is active or the track is in record mode.

In the MIDI case, the usual MIDI jitter of up to a few ms is quite normal and cannot be eliminated or compensated for, although it can somewhat be minimized (but that’s not a subject for this topic, since it’s not germane to Ableton Live specifically).

It’s not unusual for effects units to have different latency values depending on their settings, and even for some synthesizers to have slightly variable latency as well depending on a variety of factors, but usually this variance is quite low - on the order of 1-2ms total, if its there at all, and it should be fairly constant for a given patch or preset.

Does this help explain some of the issues you’re seeing and clarify some of your confusion around these various latency parameters and what you can and cannot expect from them?

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My understanding of how Overbridge VST works is that is seen by the DAW as a plug-in, (analogous to any other VST instrument) all of the digital audio routing is done behind the scenes by Overbridge. As the DAW isn’t aware the device is external, other hardware latency compensation techniques don’t apply, and I don’t think you should be using the external instrument plugin if you are using the Overbridge VST (I’m not sure if you are, or not). Instead, the latency in Overbridge is compensated for as any VST would, via Overbridge reporting it’s latency to the DAW, which then delays all other tracks by the same amount to keep them in sync.

I have a varibright 128 which I tried using with Terms Steps in Live 10.1. The grid freezes, keeps playing but won’t let me add notes, and needs unplugging/plugging back in. Anyone else having something similar?

And just because that’s how Ableton works, capture (still) won’t let me capture anything played by Terms Polygome without routing I suppose, about to try that.

Which OS are you using?

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hey @Markus! I’m on OSX 10.14.15.

Ah ok, can’t help you with that, sorry. But I remember reading in other threads about Osx ftdi problems and solutions.

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When I use Ableton CV Tools, I get a single click in the left channel for every trigger, a double click in the left channel for every gate and a single click at the BPM in the right channel when I use clock out.

My info is Mac OS 10.14.6 running Ableton 10.1 and I use CV Tools. I have an ES-8 connecting via ADAT to an RME Fireface UCX.

The issue only happens in the monitoring channel. For example, the default is two MIDI channels and two Audio channels. I will place the CV Tool instrument on Channel 2 (MIDI), and record the audio coming in on Channel 3 (Audio). The entire time the MIDI is being sent, I hear the clicks. If I turn off Channel 2 and only listen to Channel 3, the click is not there (so it’s not being recorded).

My assumption is some sort of user error, but I can’t figure out what to do. I tried the DC Offset on both channel 02 and 03, and that doesn’t appear to do anything different. if anyone has any suggestions on how to fix this, I’d love to hear them. Thanks in advance.

It’s not completely clear wether this is plausible (this can only happen if your ES-8 isn’t sending out anything, and the click shouldn’t appear on the track itself), and it might be a silly question, but have you selected the right audio output for CV? The default setting is to route them to the first stereo output of your system, which might just happen to be your monitors. That would explain the clicking.

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To be honest, I’m not the most technically savvy, so there is a distinct likelihood that I have routed things incorrectly. I just looked at the output configuration and outputs 11 through 18 are the ones routing through the ES-8.

When I hooked them up, I wasn’t certain which was which, so I manually tested each input and output, mapped them to Ableton’s Input/Output Configurator, and then renamed them so that they’d correspond to the ES-8. For example, in the pulldown menu, instead of it saying output 11, it instead reads ES8 — 01.

To me, the weird part of this is that it still works perfectly fine, it sends CV and gate no problem, it can calibrate the oscillator without problem. I can send CV, receive audio and record it; and the recording has no clicks in it. Just the headphones, and only when CV Tools is actively sending CV. In CV Tools, I can turn monitor off, so that the channel sending the CV no longer monitors the incoming audio signal, and it still clicks with the monitor off.

Completely flummoxing me. And thank you for the suggestion, and there is still the likelihood that something is being routed to the headphones that I’m not aware of.

Could it be your routing in your soundcard settings? (Totalmix, I think it’s called for RME)

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Not sure where to post this or even how to articulate it but here goes…

If you have Ableton 10.1 Suite installed but no stand alone Max/Msp, where do you put Max externals so they are in the search path?

Does that even make sense?

Thanks!

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you can put them wherever you’d like; then add the folder they’re in to your search path by (in Live) clicking “Add Folder” under Places, and then in the pop-up, navigating to the folder you’d like to add, selecting it and clicking “open”.

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Mateo, a mere thank you doesn’t feel like enough. But thank you nonetheless. That was the exact problem, TotalMix has a Matrix view, which I’ve never used before, and in that view, the channel that was sending the CV was being monitored by the headphones. Once I turned off those channels, everything responds exactly how it should.

THANK YOU!!!

And thank you Lines as a community. I asked this same question every single place I could think of and was ignored. I ask here, and within an hour I had a reply, and within the day, someone solved the problem. I obviously am very happy that it was resolved, but I’m more happy in how helpful Lines is. You’re awesome.

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Calling all Ultralite + CV Tools fam out there:

I just upgraded to an mk4 and Live 10.1 (big month for me!), but I’m having some trouble setting up CV in/out. My computer recognizes the ultralite in the audio input/output preferences and I can get audio just fine from it, but when I use any of the CV tools, I don’t see the analog in/out options for the interface in the dropdowns. I’ve played around with the input config and midi sync tabs to no avail, which was getting pretty aggravating. What am I doing wrong in the preferences? Do i need to install a driver or something? Any and all advice is greatly appreciated.

Make sure you have your MOTU drivers installed (I assume you’re on a Mac).

I had a helluva time getting it to work at first, but then someone pointed out that the outputs (at least on the Ultralite mk3hybrid that I have) are mislabelled. The Main outs are 1 and 2, and the analog out which is labelled 1 is actually 3!~

Thanks, @eblomquist! Should I be using the MOTU AVB/Pro Audio Installer here or is it found somewhere else?

That’s a problem on Ultralite that dates back a loooong while because I remember going mad about it 7 years ago on an MK2 ^^

Make sure you have the Analog Outputs activated on Pro Audio Control. And try updating to the latest firmware version otherwise (1.3.5+241). I haven’t used the CV tools yet, but I did use Silent Way with the Ultralite mk4. I should run the upgrade to 10.1 this weekend and try it out, though.

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I don’t know, at this point I’d defer to others who have the mk4!