All Things Lorre Mill

#1

Post your Lorre Mill questions and tips here.
And your Lorre Mill music!
Will from Lorre Mill and Allie from Allieway Audio are here to help.

If you’re just getting started, or wondering if Double Knot or Keyed Mosstone might be right for you, Will’s and Allie’s videos are great.

Here they are -

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#2

My question. I’m getting lovely tuned bass drum and tom sounds out of DK, and I’m creating some beats which maybe I can use for songs. However, as soon as I add other instruments, if the percussion is tuned, I want it to be IN TUNE, so it doesn’t sound out of tune with the track. Can the DK oscillators track v/oct? I’m pretty sure that wasn’t the idea/plan, but if I’m CVing them externally, can I get them to track?

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#3

Question 2.
Is the Mosstone stereo?
I don’t see anything stereo in the sound design.
Happy to be wrong…
Please advise.

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#4

Pretty sure the audio output is stereo—or I’ve been operating under that assumption.

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#5

The output is definitely stereo, but is the audio?

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#6

AFAIK the audio is mono, the output stereo.

Here’s a playlist of some pieces I did on the DK/MT (which I no longer own unfortunately). Truly unique and inspiring instruments.

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#7

Hey everyone! Been browsing lines for some time, but only now decided to take the plunge and make an account! :slight_smile:

My name is Allie, and I seem to be known here for my videos on Lorre Mill gear (seen above) and the ORCA livecoding environment (still working on that series btw, life getting in the way!). Please let me know if you have any questions about either of these and I’ll be happy to get back to you! :smiley:

And thank you so much, @lloydcole, I’m flattered! To answer you question regarding the tuning of the Double Knot, I believe you could achieve a 1/v per octave response from the pitch attenuverters, but it’d be very touchy to get the knob in the exact right spot. An important thing to realize is that the Lorre Mill standard is 0v to +8v, with no negatives allowed, so be careful what you try connecting. I’ll sometimes connect the key output from the Mosstone to the double knot to get the drums to track, but it’s fiddly if you want perfection. 100% perfection is not really what Lorre-Mill is about, IMO.

I usually don’t fiddle with that though - If I want drums moving in pitch, I’ll often connect a register’s gate or DAC output to the pitch input and just play with the attenuverter and base pitch until I get a set of tones I like - often these results will be microtonal/weird in nature, especially with the DAC since you’re basically creating a sort of equal temperament, but if they sound nice together who cares!

One other option you should definitely look into if you have the option are the sync inputs on the DK’s oscillators - they have a very unique implementation of sync which locks on to both subharmonics and harmonics, while also changing the oscillator’s character. It seems to work best with square wave inputs of a sufficient level, so you may need to amplify depending on what your connecting. If you’re just using the DK, it’s super fun just to sync one osc to another’s square, and then play with the pitch of both - the results will usually be harmonically related and nice together, but often unexpectedly so!

Sorry for rambling, but I hope that helps :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll try to post some of my jams and explorations/ideas in this thread later, but thanks again for the warm welcome!

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#8

I’ll ask, Will. He’s providing some documentation for a Cowboy Callosum I got from him recently.

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#9

Please share any info in cowboy callossum if you can. I got mine yesterday and the mixer part is so far a bit mysterious to me.

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#10

Figured I’d upload one of my favorite tricks with the Double Knot - by utilizing the sync inputs in conjunction with lots of feedback FM (middle position on the switch), you can achieve some strikingly realistic Sitar sounds! I was so surprised when I first discovered this! :smiley:

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#11

I’m just getting started with the Keyed Mosstone.
And thanks to @Allieway_Audio I actually know, mostly, what I’m doing.
As a pseudo random melody generator played by hand or clocked by Double Knot it is quite lovely.
But I’m struggling to understand the thinking behind the envelope and it’s CV control.
I wonder if the envelope can be calibrated to have a longer fall time?
With the knobs becoming attenuators for the CV once CV is plugged in I’m finding impossible to, for example, have a longer fall time (all the way CCW), and significant CV influence on it…
Switching between sustained notes and not sustained can create lovely changes in feel. It would be lovely if a gate could do this, as well as the button.

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#12

I understand wanting the decay to be a bit longer, I mostly have just learned to use the mosstone for lots of more plucky percussive / looping envelope sounds though - it’s what it excels at, and you can always add some reverb for extra decay :slight_smile:

And, gate-able sustain would be fun, albeit a little confusing in combination with the button!

I mostly use the envelope CVs with gates, and then tune the range with the knobs/attenuators. Like you said, using more complex CV can lead to decays being too short, though this can be fine for nice percussive sounds with a sequence going into the key inputs. You can also patch the randoms to the attack and decay, then trigger the random with the key trigger, so you’ll get a unique envelope each time you play a note!

Another option is to loop the envelope - it’s a very underrated ability, and can create some really unique sounds with complex cv going into the attack and decay, since the envelope can reach audio rate.

The attack CV is also very handy when creating plucky sounds - patch the attack gate to the noise or wavefolder, then modulate the attack time to create notes with variable amounts of “pluck” - you can use a random for this, or make it part of the sequence!

Also, if you have a Double Knot, you may want to try bypassing the envelope altogether (just patch one of the DK’s envelope outputs to the VCA input on the mosstone), that gives you more flexibility to use the envelope for other shenanigans (e.g. additional clock, oscillator, lfo, clock divider…) - plus I find the sound of a droning double knot voice triggering alongside the mosstone sounds quite nice when properly tuned, similar to having a sympathetic string. If you want to play the mosstone manually with this droning second oscillator, just patch the key trigger output to the register’s clock, then fill the registers with all-high gates and loop it.

I have other ideas but this should be enough to get you started playing around. Lorre Mill is all about thinking outside of the box, so play around :smiley:

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Orca - live coding tool
#13

Will told me he was going to post some additional documentation. The three 3.5mm female jacks on the back of the Cowboy Callosum are for the left side, the ring modulator in the middle, and the right side of the Cowboy Callosum–all stereo. Next to the power jack on the left DK is clock in. The next is clock out and the last audio out. The same applies for the right DK, except for the power jack. Unlike with a single DK unit, there’s not a banana ground jack. Will assured me, I could achieve a ground between my Mosstone and CC by running a line between a 3.5mm jack in one unit to the other: it works. Another way to achieve a ground is to simply output each unit to the mixer. I’ve just begun to mess around with the Callosum part of the equation.

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#14

I tried that. Fun.

Nice!

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#15

It seems like, because the longest release is the most CCW position of the knob… this also means the LEAST amount of CV. So for long releases, CV control is almost impossible. Maybe we can persuade Will to chime in here. It looks like a possible design oversight, because when the shortest release times are chosen, even with the, supposed maximum CV influence, I can’t hear anything. Maybe my KM is wonky?

Reading through the manual again - it says

“Envelope out can be patched to the CV in or through inverter to CV in for some variance in shape of env”

Well, that’s what I was hoping for, as patching the env out to the env CV in on the double knot creates a nice exponential shape.

But there is no env CV in on the KM, that I can see. There are rise and fall ins. Maybe I should send CV to both (I did already try this and didn’t hear anything…).

It seems quite possible that I’m missing something essential to the workings of the KM, right now, so I apologize if I’m creating a whole lot of noise, here…

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#16

I think I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t feel like it’s a flaw, more a design decision that can be played with.

Just to make sure you understand how the knobs function, when you have a signal plugged into the fall cv input, the knob becomes an attenuator for that signal - lets say we plugged in a 0v to 8v LFO - when the knob is fully counter-clockwise, you get a full decay, with no influence from the LFO. Then, as we turn the knob clockwise, we get more and more LFO modulation, which will in practice push the decay length shorter as higher voltages are reaching the CV. Once we get fully clockwise, the LFO has full control over the parameter, so there will be wide fluctuation. The only time you’ll get “full length” decay with this level of cv control is if the input is at/near 0v.

The rise cv input is a flipped version (e.g. fully counter clockwise you get no attack or cv).

This is why I recommend starting by patching gates to the CV inputs, at least to start with - gates in Lorre Mill are made up of 0v and 8v alternating signals. What this means is that, no matter where the fall knob is, you’ll get some full length decays from the low gates and then the high gate decay length will be determined by wherever you put the knob (so, if you wanna alternate between the longest and shortest decay time, you’d just go full clockwise, if you want the high gate to be halfway you put the knob halfway etc). It’s a lot easier to get long decays that way!

Also, I think I mention this in my Mosstone video, but a fun trick is to send the same gate to both the rise and fall CV inputs with a banana cable and play with the knobs - the result will be that, when the gate is high, the attack will be long and the decay will be short, and then when the gate is low, the attack will be short and the decay will be long - flip flopping envelopes!

Also, patching the envelope output back into the rise or fall CVs does have a subtle but noticeable effect depending on where the knob is, especially if you have the envelope modulation the fold/FM as well. The changes will be as follows:

Env Out -> Rise CV = Adjustable Logarithmic Attack
Env Out -> Inverter In, Inverter Out -> Rise CV = Adjustable Exponential Attack
Env Out -> Fall CV = Adjustable Exponential Attack
Env Out -> Inverter In, Inverter Out -> Fall CV = Adjustable Logarithmic Attack

What I mean by “Adjustable” is that the curve will become increasingly present the further clockwise you have the corresponding knob - fully counter-clockwise, the envelope’s curve will be linear, and then it will start to warp as you turn the knob clockwise.

Hopefully this helps and isn’t too confusing, lemme know if you have any other questions!

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#17

Looks like I have a lemon.

I just made a very simple test, two gates from DK shift reg outs to two of the key gates in, therefore playing a different note for each gate.
One of the gates also patched to fall CV in, so if the knob is fully CW, when there is no gate, the fall should be full length. The DK is playing slowly enough that the gates are long enough compared to the longest release on KM. Notes should alternate between short and long. It’s not happening, all the notes are short. There is an ever so slightly longer decay on the gated note. EVERY SO SLIGHT.

Just checked the behaviour of the Rise CV and it is behaving as you say it should. When set fully CW, it’s alternating between short and long.
So just the Fall CV input is off…

A couple of other things. A banana cable inserted in the RISE CV in is not sufficient to override the knob. It needs to be connected to something.

This SORT OF makes sense, but but if the CV in is completely overriding the knobs, how does the envelope know what rise and fall values to begin the computations with?

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#18

I tried to play the double knot with a keystep this weekend. I was unable to get a full octave to track. I’ve been able to get a double knot in tune with a mosstone though.

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#19

Interesting - even if you turn the knob less than fully counter clockwise you don’t get a noticeable change? That is pretty odd - I’d even suspect it could be an issue with the double knot’s outputs having some DC offset, but you say that it works as expected with the Rise CV so I’m not sure. I’d ask Will his thoughts on this behavior (not sure if he’s watching the thread or not).

And yeah, getting perfect tracking is gonna be tricky with such a wide ranging control - I love microtonal music and unusual EDOs though, so it doesn’t bother me much - try exploring outside the traditional 12-notes-per-octave standard and you’ll be constantly surprised at what you find! :smiley:

Speaking of tuning, what do you all have your Mosstone’s scale tuned to?

I have mine tuned to a tuning called “8EDT”, aka “8 equal divisions of the tritave”. Instead of being octave-repeating as most common scales are, this scale repeats every Tritave (aka Perfect Twelfth), and divides this interval into 8 equal parts. It’s one of my favorite microtonal scales, though technically it’d be considered “macrotonal” since the smallest intervals are larger than a semitone! Here is a little melody I made in 8EDT on my computer so you can hear what it sounds like:

Speaking of, do you think people would be interested if I made a microtonal music thread on lines? It’s a big interest of mine and could be fun! :slight_smile:

EDIT: Btw, if the mosstone does have a stereo output, does it matter if I’m using a mono cable with it? I haven’t heard any issues with the sound quality, and I don’t have a spare stereo cable to spare :frowning:

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#20

I’m in touch with Will about this. The last thing he wrote suggested the synth was working as expected, and there is a DC offset factor. But I did more testing and made a video to show my RISE cv working exactly as expected and my FALL, hardly at all. And… when CV is connected to RISE cv, the knob is bypassed. Not so with FALL cv, so as the CV influence increases the FALL gets shorter and shorter, so, on mine, any significant CV of FALL is all but impossible.
I haven’t heard back from Will, yet.
Your KM works as expected with CV connected to FALL?

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