Apple and data privacy

[Jfkimmedy]

Might be a little bit off but are there any webdesigners on here? I still have chrome on my computer for testing websites on different sizes and “devices” via the chrome developer tools. Chrome takes up a lot of space and I don’t want it on my computer, do you know any (good/cheap) software or add-ons for cross-browser testing?

[jatwo]

@Jfkimmedy

Any password manager you’d recommend?

I use Bitwarden and really like it. It’s FOSS, and syncs across all my devices/browsers

[simonvanderveldt]

@NightMachines

Pretty much everybody needs a computer nowadays and almost none of us are savvy enough to set up and run an alternative like Linux, let alone willing to accept the inconveniences of such an alternative.

IMHO this is a fallacy. Modern Linux is easy enough for anyone to use and is totally viable for an average person’s needs (i.e. access the Internet and maybe write some docs every now and then).
It has it’s idiosyncrasies just like macOS and Windows have their idiosyncrasies. It’s just that you’ve used macOS/Windows (pick whichever one applies) your whole life so you’re used to them.

Apart from that I also think it’s more about that to most people losing their privacy/ownership of their machine is a vague or even irrelevant threat. And even for people that are aware like in this topic it’s apparently taken as the better choice vs switching to something that does respect (and even value) your privacy but might take a bit of effort/(re)learning.

Also keep in mind that pretty much all of us are just consumers, so unless we choose to stop spending money on products that invade our privacy and start spending it on privacy and freedom respecting products nothing will change.

[license]

It’s worth mentioning also that a lot of essential apps are available as web apps nowadays. Unfortunately a lot of well-known ones are owned by big, creepy privacy-eroding companies, but at least on the web you have some control over the client (browser) you access the apps with.

I would still recommend taking a little time to indulge in the exercise of exploring alternatives, even if you have no plans to make any big switches. In particular, I was using Max before I switched over to Linux. Norns is what made me interested in SC, but I ended up finding that for me personally it’s more intuitive than Max. It might be a “computer nerd” thing, but it’s been satisfying to discover that what I thought I wanted or needed was actually better provided by FOSS that I previously found intimidating.

Also, it’s hard to describe the folksy feeling of being able to actually talk to the people who maintain the software you use, or even to modify it yourself. It’s like the polar opposite of what you get from Google, Apple, etc. This has been an epiphany for me over the last couple of years. It’s satisfying on multiple levels, and I would encourage non-developers to find a way to get involved in those processes.

[mdoudoroff]

@simonvanderveldt

average person’s needs (i.e. access the Internet and maybe write some docs every now and then)

I don’t know a single such average person.

[aroom]

My father, 72 years old, is doing is memoir on a rasp-pi. He is by no mean tech savvy.

Linux is pretty accessible nowadays (IMO for more than a decade now).

But that’s not the point of this topic. I hope that this issue being public, Apple will address it and at least encrypt the metrics. And I also hope that someone will find a workaround on those M1 chip, because they are looking great.

[infovore]

When I had this need, Browserstack tended to be the right answer: many versions of many browsers on many operating systems, all ready for you to remote-control into, or to run automated testing with. It’s useful “actual” browser testing, rather than “does it work in two different recent browsers?”, including on OSes you don’t have access too, and on OSes it’s a pain to install.

You may not like its pricing depending on how you define “cheap”. I would unsubscribe and resubscribe from time to time.

Otherwise: is Chrome really that big? As a web developer, I consider having multiple browsers to hand just part of the work, rather than a burden.

[mbutz]

My sister is one of them. I helped her switch to Linux years ago because she didn’t want to pay for Windows 10. She is everything but computer literate. She really likes it and did never ever complain. She surves the internet, writes some emails and keeps her photographs.

I would dare to say if she can everybody can.

I don’t think you are forced to stick with Apple and their closed world view of technology. It is probably a question of priorities.

Over at the Linux thread someone wrote, that if you insist on the workflow you are used to, you will probably not be happy with Linux; if you think it over you will surely begin to see the advantages and find ways to change what does not fit anymore. I think there is much truth in this.

[Gahlord]

Common ways of handling this sort of thing is burners or steganographic means. Things like Little Snitch, when they aren’t thoroughly compromised themselves, can never keep up with the host systems. Short term wins but every win trains the host system as well. Methods that go with the expected flow are more long-lasting than those that attempt to block flow.

[RABID]

i, too, turn my wifi on/off like a light switch(can’t leave computers on the net, back when i was plugged into ethernet, i’d always remove that cable when i was done, too)… but i’m old school: all this talk is making me want to buy a gun… not sure why, i guess i’m thinking i’ll shoot em if they set foot on my property(through the ‘wires’ of the internet that is )

[papernoise]

@aroom

My father, 72 years old, is doing is memoir on a rasp-pi. He is by no mean tech savvy.

My father also runs linux on an old PC. He’s totally happy with it and it does everything he needs. Of course he’s neither a musician, nor a designer.

I think usually what keeps people from using linux is not that it’s hard to use, but that they don’t have some software they rely on.

What annoys me is that, as somebody who needs to use the computer to be able to make a living, I am a bit annoyed by even having to think about this. I mean… I’ve got to work, why does the OS keep getting in the way? I’d really prefer to waste my time on making music
This whole privacy thing is just one aspect. During this last year it really became apparent to me how much time I had to spend to make things work on my computer, and this includes OS-related stuff, native apps, webapps, etc. Often my life get better and easier by switching to open source alternatives.
Just to make an example, recently I ditched the proprietary tool Toggl, in favour of an app called Superproductivity. Which really helped to waste a lot less time and just get things done.
Same thing when I ditched Dropbox for Nextcloud. Of course I’ve also wasted lots of time trying to make linux work for me hahaha but I’m still kind of hopeful that one day…

@mbutz

Over at the Linux thread someone wrote, that if you insist on the workflow you are used to, you will probably not be happy with Linux;

This probably applies to everything. And sometimes it can be even beneficial. Changing your workflow might even result in a better one. I mean, of course it’s not like one can make a rule out of it. But I’d say: give youself a chance to find out.

[electret]

@papernoise

I think usually what keeps people from using linux is not that it’s hard to use, but that they don’t have some software they rely on.

Exactly this. I’ve used various linux OSes in the past but until Ableton/Max works there without weird hackery it won’t happen for me. The OS is the foundation on which useful things run, not an end in itself.

[brook]

Apple’s security and privacy issues have made me anxious to jump ship for years. But the not-having-software issue is exactly why I haven’t gone 100% Linux (or Windows for that matter). Over the years I’ve done so much work that needs regular access to and involves inter-app workflows dependent on Mac-only software (eg Devonthink, Curio, Numerology). If this wasn’t the case I’d have gone 100% Linux years ago.

I don’t find Linux alienating. It’s easier for me to grok than Windows, even though I’ve had to use windows from time to time for years and it used to be my only OS. The Mac OS feels more and more like Windows to me every year .

But don’t listen to me, I still think Word Perfect for DOS was the greatest writing machine ever. And picospan was the best online conferencing system

[ahmohb]

I highly recommend pass. You don’t have to worry about having your data on someone else’s computer.

[mdoudoroff]

@brook

But don’t listen to me, I still think Word Perfect for DOS was the greatest writing machine ever.

Word Perfect was definitely up there. I also did pretty well for years prior with Word Star on CP/M. (That Zenith Z-100 keyboard is still best-ever.)

[grey]

What annoys me is that, as somebody who needs to use the computer to be able to make a living, I am a bit annoyed by even having to think about this. I mean… I’ve got to work, why does the OS keep getting in the way? I’d really prefer to waste my time on making music

This. 100 times this.

I grew up with computers. I’ve been a developer. I’m very much a “power user”, but JFC. I am so over spending time making computers work.

It’s not that I don’t have the knowledge or even interest, but how much life I have spent researching nuanced solutions to technical problems that are quickly obsolesced!

I’m not upgrading from Mohave until I’m obligated. Software isn’t getting better anymore, it feel like things are just changing to justify people having work to do.

To bring things back on topic, there’s always been that point that if you don’t pay for something, you become the product.

I’d say that is what makes this so gross. Apple is one of the most valuable luxury computing companies in the world. Those of us who use their products DID pay a handsome sum for the privilege, and yet they still want to make us the product too.

I realize they are competing in a market that has decided user data is the ur value driver, but it still sucks.

[brook]

I’m finding it helpful to think of being online as an intentional, temporary act - something that requires me to PLUG IN (physically via ethernet or virtually via wifi) and then remember to UNPLUG whenever it isn’t required. And looking for alternatives that respect privacy and anonymity wherever possible. I don’t think I use anything that requires connection to the internet while working, which was why my computer slowing to a crawl during Apple’s slowdown was so shocking to me. I felt silly AND alarmed when unplugging just magically made it all fine again.
But it’s critical to keep pushing Apple and all the rest to stop with this crap, even if there’s little hope of that happening.
(Think I’ll go donate something to the EFF now…)

[ether]

A more accurate investigation:

Does Apple really log every app you run? A technical look – Jacopo...

[mdoudoroff]

I am glad to read that the Jeffrey Paul’s analysis was wrong and that this business concerns what would be the normal functioning of a (debatably) desirable security feature (if Apple’s services had been operating correctly).

I feel this is a situation where Apple needs to be communicating better, particularly when they want to wrap themselves in the privacy flag.

[Ted]

I will forgo my data privacy if it means fewer “DAW-less jam” videos.