Wow. Lots of strong emotions here. I think everybody’s gotten a bit off topic. If you want to flame Apple or just talk about your peeves, perhaps we can split this conversation? I’m interested in helping people who find value in that platform, but not interested in participating in an “everything sucks” sort of conversation. I think, like all corporations, Apple has in many ways lost the plot. Such is capitalism. But at the same time, they are a particular style of computing that works for a lot of us who dislike the alternatives more. Can we have a friendlier conversation around the actual hardware and can a mod please split the other topics off into a mac vs. windows discussion so the rest of us can avoid that, please! :black_heart: :peace_symbol:

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I kinda thought “or are there alternatives?” was the understood subtitle to this thread. I don’t think anything I wrote was flaming Apple or anyone individually, but if I offended, I apologize and I’ll try to understand how.

I think it’s in part due to apple’s own way of branding itself since forever. They defined themselves early on as the white knight saviors, and have this “make everything with us and hate everything else or hate us and gtfo” kind of communication / business strategy. I think, according to where they are now financially, from a “capitalism” point of view, it was the good choice and it works very nicely for them. For us though, damn it seems to be tough to branch out of this toxicity and simply discuss pros and cons like we would to make the difference between two different PCs or Dishwashers for that matter. I understand how tiring it must be to read through this thread though, I know it was for me.

I recommend checking out Path Finder. It’s a powerful replacement for the standard Finder. It has a button to quickly create an empty file in the current folder.

I hope that my comment about XCode 10’s failures didn’t come off as needless flaming. I use both operating systems for work, and in fact wrote that from my MacBook. However, I’m also part of the growing number of professionals that are getting extremely frustrated by the annual excisions and breakages.

I bought this MacBook in 2015, and it was one of the last models to have the physical ports that I use frequently: USB 3.0, HDMI, DisplayPort (works with my external monitor), and SD slot. At some point in the next few years, I would like to buy a faster MacBook, but I’m caught in an uncomfortable limbo. At this point, I would have to spend a large amount of money to buy a computer that is ultimately less convenient to use. On the other hand, the Windows laptops are nowhere near the MacBooks in quality or feel. I’ve tried Razers, Surface Pros, Surfaces Books, HP Envies, etc… on almost every Windows laptop, the trackpad is unacceptable, end of story. Plus, some of these multi-thousand dollar computers come stuffed full of crapware. I’ve had multiple friends with Razer hardware failures, and I owned an HP laptop that had an entire motherboard failure (no joke… they ended up in a class action lawsuit and I was sent an even worse Dell laptop as the settlement terms).

So, when this MacBook gives up the ghost, I’ll be asking the same question as this thread’s title. I only pray that they still have headphone jacks in the next generation, as they’ve already been removed from the iPad Pros.

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+1 for splitting the thread. A thread with some tips about how to smoothly transit from macOS to Windows or any Linux Distro (or vice versa) would be great and more useful than just focus on how bad Apple is.

If someone need to buy a MacBook, they should find some info here about MacBook, like the T2 and USB audio interfaces issue etc.

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My 2008 Mac Pro seems to have finally stopped working (I think it’s a power supply issue). That new Mac Mini would be perfect for me if it wasn’t for all these audio issues I’m reading about.

@Rodrigo - did you end up finding a 2012 mini server? I’m definitely avoiding the 2014 models as they can’t be upgraded.

There is a Windows 10 discussion here: Windows 10 for music making
Please everybody use that for anything directly related to Windows.
I’ll be moving part of this thread over there, since it really does not belong here (hoping I can do a clean job, without disrupting the fabric of this topic too much).

It also appears to me that it would be very useful for some people. It seems that finding an alternative to macOS is relevant for many people right now and this topic is not the best place to discuss that.

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This wasn’t aimed at anyone in specific, least of all you. Just, the tone of this entire conversation has gotten incredibly negative and not discussing hardware, etc.

I don’t think I would personally agree with this statement, but that certainly seems to be a common impression among many people currently disgruntled with Apple. I think Apple’s main marketing message was simply “think different” … they’re a different approach to UI, a different approach to computing in general (tied-together hardware and OS, as a principle), a different approach to fundamental systems design – Mach microkernel, security at the core of everything you do, performance as a secondary concern - ‘fast enough’ is fast enough, focus on integration and complete experience rather than pure bleeding edge tech, inventing the tech necessary to further that integration, especially while protecting privacy… all of these are core and true to the Apple philosophy, marketing, message, and idea.

Yes, they’ve done the big successful company thing and not been anybody’s saviour but it was obvious from the get-go that Steve Jobs was a relentless capitalist who believe, as many original successful capitalists do, that making an excellent, differentiated product would be worth the effort. But Apple has never been, since day 1, anything more than a capitalist company who seeks to be a little better, in their chosen areas, than other capitalist corporations. I don’t see how anybody missed that or could have been lead to believe anything else. A different way to compute, that works for some, doesn’t work for others, and is… well, different! (Aside: all those who wish Apple would be more “open” are missing the point and one of the reasons for the major - though amicable - split between Woz and Jobs…)

Now, to get back onto the topic, hardware. The latest macs are phenomenal - they’re very powerful (especially the iMac Pro), quiet, lightweight, generally reliable (that damned keyboard excepted) and yes, they f***ed up the USB, which now seems like it’s getting attention/fixes/workarounds from multiple angles. I get that making a big stink is necessary these days to get large corporations to take notice, but with so many professionals using other interface standards (Thunderbolt, primarily), to take swings at Apples “Pro” marketing on that basis to me was not only unreasonable but inaccurate. I know many actual pros who were completely unaffected by this. My point is this, the latest hardware is, with few caveats, quite fantastic and while I firmly believe “good enough” is (and thus enjoy and will continue using my older hardware), I wouldn’t mind embracing the USB-C/Thunderbolt-3 world in the future, when the time comes. Nobody who is faced with the decision of “should I buy a new Mac (at all)” should at all come away with the impression that “no, they all suck”, but that’s precisely the feeling I get from reading this thread.

I’ll summarize the actual, non-emotionally loaded, response to the current state of Mac 2018/Early 2019 hardware as follows:

  • iPads: they’re much more powerful than before, especially with the A12 speed bump. If that’s your preferred format, get whatever you can afford as they’re all pretty darn fast now.
  • Mac Mini: The USB issue is the only thing that’s currently holding this model back from being perhaps the best choice for fixed studio work if you already have monitors you like and/or don’t need insane processing power. That’s supposedly getting fixed soon, and even if it doesn’t, Thunderbolt and Ethernet (AVB/Dante) audio is completely unaffected.
  • iMac: The USB issue is completely fixed with the CalDigit dongle workaround, and should be fixed by the next OS without it too, if the current reports are to be believed. An excellent and very powerful all-in-one that’s silent unless you’re pushing it insanely hard, easily portable, and beautiful. The latest base models are quite fast, but even a fairly loaded iMac from 2014 is still sufficient to handle quite a lot of tracks, synthesis, etc.
  • Mac Pro: forget about it for now, it’s aging. If you need that much power look at the iMac Pros which are ridiculously fast and much more relatively affordable. That said, I know pro video shops who continue to buy these because they’re good enough and at their price / performance ratio they’re still a good idea for a niche subset.
  • The subject of this thread, the Macbooks: the Pro series are all I’d personally consider, and the only real issues with the latest ones are: The USB issue (same as iMac, seems permanently fixed with the caldigit dongle, might be fixed without it in an immediately forthcoming OS update) and their keyboards which are still not perfect but quite a lot better in terms of reliability than the 2016/2017 models. Otherwise, they’re fantastic laptops with perhaps the absolute best trackpad experience of any, great screens if you care about colour work on the go, and plenty of performance.
  • note: not to say that the non-pro MBs are bad, I just don’t feel they’re as good a value for your money as the Pro line. If you are, though, seriously financially constrained and/or mostly want the Mac for pure recording/playback duties and don’t plan to load it up with lots of demanding plugins or synthesis tools, the non-Pro Macbooks will still be very capable performers able to handle even video editing/playback effects, Max/MSP, and DAW duties. They’re not toys, they’re still quite capable computers, but for your money you get a little bit more with the Pro line. I don’t personally think the touchbar is awful, nor a real benefit, so don’t factor it as a plus or minus when evaluating which model to get. Put your money into the RAM, which isn’t upgradeable on the laptops, before you upgrade any other components. 16GB of RAM (vs. 8) will get you much farther than a CPU speed bump or bigger storage will in terms of being able to use it for heavier computing/audio/video processing workloads (unless you’re doing a lot of realtime video, but that’s a niche consideration and I’m speaking in generalities here).

Realize, Macs are not focused on being the ultimate fastest machines - they’re focused on being the most cohesive integrated whole. You buy a Mac because of the total experience, how they get out of your way when doing work, they either “think like you do” or they don’t, and if they do, nothing else will come close to being as useful. If they don’t, you probably care about price more than these other things and that’s totally legitimate. But complaining about Apple’s pricing, especially on the basis of performance/features, is pointless. That’s not their goal and it’s never been. Anybody who fusses about Apple’s current prices clearly never tried to buy a Mac in the '90s when they cost, relatively speaking, almost twice as much as they do today, especially for the really performant models. Your ire would be better targeted to the Apple back then than the one today if you’re upset over pricing.

Apple is not, never has been, and I don’t think wants to be, a “democratic” computer company. They want to make highly opinionated products for people that that opinion serves well. Clearly in the case of phones, that serves a majority of the world’s wealthy population. For computers, it serves quite a bit less. But that’s how it goes, that’s their DNA and their heritage, and that’s the road they’ll continue on, like it or not.

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I’m reading that the audio issue affects the internal soundcard too, not just usb devices. My wife has experienced odd sound glitches on her iMac Pro using the built in sound.

I’ve also read that those using Thunderbolt and Firewire -> Thunderbolt are having glitching issues too. I wish it wasn’t the case, but I’m not going to drop the cash and hope it works.

That’s the reason I have loved Macs for years, but they’re failing at that currently.

I’ve also read that those using Thunderbolt and Firewire -> Thunderbolt are having glitching issues too. I wish it wasn’t the case, but I’m not going to drop the cash and hope it works.

let us know if you’re having problems on firewire too, my macbook is dying and i wish not to change my motu ultralite too

After a couple of weeks of hunting on eBay I finally found and bought one (at an OK price) this week. I was pretty picky in my search though, specifically looking to get the 2012, quad core, i7 2.6Ghz (upgraded CPU speed) version. Beyond that there’s RAM/HDD, but all of that is upgradeable.

I’m pretty excited to get it as I imagine it will be pretty damned fast (seemingly faster that my pre-touchbar MBP).

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I do wonder about buying older model laptops and installing Linux in them. I imagine a bare bones Linux district on a 2013 MBA or similar would fly.

There are some rumblings that the new beta fixes the drop out issues, so I’m going to stay tuned:

https://www.forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?pid=139705#p139705

Apple just released macOS Mojave 10.4.4

  • Improves the reliability of USB audio devices when used with the MacBook Air, MacBook Pro and Mac mini models introduced in 2018

edit: combo update here : https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1996?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

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Was just about to post about this. Is there anybody on LINES who is affected and can try it out?

I’ve installed it but it’ll be later in the week before I can do some tests.

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Very quick test and all seems ok. I have auto set of date & time on, and recorded a few minutes of audio without any glitches. Fingers crossed! I’ll try a longer test later in the week.

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CDM did a write up about it here

This coincides nicely with the fact that 2018 i7 Minis are showing up in the Apple refurbished section for $230 off new. (16GB/256GB)

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Yeah, should be fine in general. I’m using a 2015 MBP (no nvidia graphics) and it works fine with current day kernels, currently I’m using 4.19.

How frustrating that I sold my Motu Ultralite because of this mess. Now I want it back! :slight_smile: