Approaching: norns

dani_derks · 2022-05-07T20:19:49.360Z

hihi! sorry to hear about the grumps – i’ve been navigating my own as well, hope all’s well with y’all <3

if it helps, some direct repsonses:

Markus:

Snr

standard norns is pro-level audio, whereas shields have varying degrees of noise – some of this was isolation issues in the original circuit design (which was corrected with rev 210330), some of this is just the strength of the Pi4’s WIFI antenna interfering when WIFI is enabled. but, just to confirm, if noise is a concern – standard norns are designed to meet expectations of pro audio / studio gear. their audio lines are fully isolated from any other electronics interference, regardless of WIFI status.

Markus:

with today’s supply chain issues and monome’s recent move to rpi4

woof yeah we’re really thankful that the codec for standard norns wasn’t constrained like the shield’s, which prompted brian’s shield circuit redesign. Pi4 support extends to the original shield hardware release – this support involved a re-tooling of the core software to help ease hardware availability issues for end-users.

Markus:

different colors

this has changed for the next batch – brian’s hinted at the finish, but we’re holding back on color confirmation:

tehn:

the finish on the production batch for ~~april~~ [historical edit: june] is still slightly unknown— but it will definitely be a more matte finish.

Markus:

other encoders

fwiw, the bourns encoders are high quality, our assembler just had a bad batch for a bit, which resulted in degradation on a handful of units (nothing massive, just enough to be frustrating). we attempted to surface these issues to bourns directly, but we aren’t building at the scale that’d provoke much action. it’s difficult to know if that batch had been sitting on a shelf in a warehouse for years before they got to our assembler, or if they were recently fabricated, but we do know that this run of boards were built with a totally new batch – if there are any troubles, though, we’ll support the same as we have over the years.

Markus:

Re move of question: of course didn’t know that pre-purchase question belonged to the “approaching norns” thread.

eh, this is pretty much the catch-all until the new run has its own thread – thank you for rolling with it!

Markus:

Oh and OT: I pinged you twice in the past re a freezing of norns issue when heavy usage of arc AND vb256. Is there a better place or way to discuss this?

oh! i haven’t seen these, or i totally spaced on 'em. either way, very sorry! direct contact at help@monome.org is best for bat-signaling

hope this helps a bit!

Markus · 2022-05-07T22:22:20.444Z

This all helps tremendously!
Even though I now feel a bit bad because I unintentionally seem to have hit some past issues, which I wasn’t aware about. I was just asking what came to my mind

Will wait, I like matte

Will ping via email re the issues

Thanks so much again, this really helped a lot.

ezekieldas · 2022-05-12T18:52:38.199Z

Greetings, I’m considering adding a norns shield to my small collection of digital music devices. I’ve given a lot of the discussion, documentation, and video a good review. My deepest apologies if I’ve overlooked any of this in that sea of detail. Also, as I’m fairly new to some of concept involved, as well as with Ableton, I do have extensive experience with tech infrastructure, languages, hardware, etc. (including some Pi!). My questions:

I’d like to test the board and image before ordering the kit. What can I expect if I boot with an HDMI head? Does the image support only the kit’s display? I’d really like to do some health checks before involving the kit.
I didn’t see anything on sizing the SD storage. Understanding this can record I would anticipate regularly moving finished product to more permanent storage. What are factors in sizing here?
I’ve been working with Ableton quite a bit and wondering how norns interfaces with it. I reckon it’s not a ‘control surface’ but is there some exchange of input/output? While I did see a mention or two of using it with a DAW, I couldn’t find any detail on how that is done.

Cheers!

sixolet · 2022-05-14T08:36:19.387Z

I don’t think an unmodified Norns image will boot without its shield. This is the answer I’m least sure about, though. I think you can get the image running virtualized in a Linux container if you find the right lines thread. What’s your goal? Maybe it can be done more easily another way.
Consider that you will be recording 48khz stereo audio, uncompressed, and calculate based on how much of that you want to record without moving some files off. And if you install some scripts that want sample packs, you’ll want room for them to.
Norns can share the ableton clock over Link. Norns can send audio over to ableton, or ableton can send audio to Norns, or both I guess if you want to use Norns as some kind of outboard effect. To send or receive midi ableton to/from Norns you’ll need a 2host adapter, or two usb/midi DIN interfaces.

zebra · 2022-05-14T18:29:10.579Z

sixolet:

don’t think an unmodified Norns image will boot without its shield. This is the answer I’m least sure about, though.

This is true. At minimum, the jackd service must be modified to use an existing audio card.

zbs · 2022-05-14T22:51:24.555Z

instructions on that renaming process here: Connect-OPZ: using USB audio with norns - #133 by rvense

@ezekieldas

ezekieldas · 2022-05-14T23:45:09.228Z

Big thanks to @sixolet, @zebra, and @zbs for the suggestions so far. I’ve learned so much since I began exploring this norns creation, it feels my head is about to explode.

In response:

boot norns w/o shield: I haven’t ordered the norns shield kit yet. I’d like to verify beforehand the board, sd card, image are all happy with one another. I’m fluent with the linux boot process so I should be able to determine this. Given the thread @zbs pointed out, it looks like a lot of the boot process could be successful without the shield. I now have all the parts and will try this in the next few days. I’ll report back findings.
I’ll plan on monitoring this closely. Looks like a lot of recording could easily be offloaded to permanent storage.
This issue reveals an area where I have zero knowledge. I’d like to have Ableton, norns, an existing midi controller co-existing and passing data. The 2host adapter @sixolet pointed out explains what’s necessary. I found these videos to explain further. I’ll probably try the Sevilla MIDI USB-USB item.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztqJm5MB8GY

Jonny · 2022-05-15T14:00:40.999Z

ezekieldas:

boot norns w/o shield: I haven’t ordered the norns shield kit yet. I’d like to verify beforehand the board, sd card, image are all happy with one another

The issues people typically run into have to do with latency, noise, or other things, not whether or not the pi starts up. Feel free to experiment but I guess what I’m saying is that you really shouldn’t worry too much about that as long as you pick up a decent SD card and power supply.

MFL · 2022-05-24T12:06:18.511Z

Hi! I am thinking of getting a Norns to create a custom step sequencer. I would like to send out MIDI notes from Norns. I notice that it has 2 audio ins and outs and 4 USB ports. Are the USB ports for inputs only or can I use one of it as MIDI out?

Thank you!

nattog · 2022-05-24T12:30:07.565Z

they can be both, i use a iconnectivity mio for this

MFL · 2022-05-24T12:58:38.799Z

So you mean the 4 USB ports can be both input and output ports right? In my case the midi-in is a 3.5mm jack input:

Screenshot 2022-05-24 at 15.01.46

So I guess I’ll need a USB to 3.5 mm jack adapter.

anon45924993 · 2022-05-24T13:09:58.181Z

Strange but true, a USB midi host (such as norns or any other Linux computer) is not the same thing as a USB midi client. Norns is not a USB midi controller/client, but it can send and receive USB midi to and from controllers/clients.

A USB midi interface (mio is one) can take signals from multiple hosts and clients and route them elsewhere flexibly.

danbond · 2022-05-24T14:30:33.912Z

The Norns has 2 inputs - a L and R. The Shield has just one - a TRS input. I wouldn’t consider it a true “2 input” device but certainly scripts can be designed to treat it like that and many do. I suppose it is a 2 input device

I use this cheap mini-USB converter to send midi to my PC from the Norns Shield USB ports. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Interface-Adapter-Converter-Compatible-Keyboard-Red/dp/B07H24KNCR

It works just fine.

There are loads of step sequencers on the Norns - what you want might already exist, or need only a small amount of modding to do what you are looking for.

anon45924993 · 2022-05-24T15:08:09.579Z

That device that @danbond linked is a USB midi interface (about the simplest one possible). That’s the type of thing you’ll need if you want to use a USB midi host (norns, a Linux computer) with another USB midi host (any other computer).

Jonny · 2022-05-24T15:11:16.542Z

danbond:

The Norns has 2 inputs - a L and R. The Shield has just one - a TRS input. I wouldn’t consider it a true “2 input” device but certainly scripts can be designed to treat it like that and many do. I suppose it is a 2 input device

It’s functionally the same if you get a trs jack splitter.

helveticascenario · 2022-05-25T00:31:34.900Z

Will the new run of norns still have 4gb eMMC or has it been upgraded?

dani_derks · 2022-05-25T00:39:14.299Z

helveticascenario:

upgraded

the next run will have 32gb standard

helveticascenario · 2022-05-25T00:55:37.262Z

sweet. has the price changed?

Sidiblue · 2022-05-29T12:49:10.587Z

Hello, I would like to know if there are differences in terms of specificities between for example a norns monome 2020 and 2022? My real question is to know if it’s interesting to buy a used 2020 norns or if it’s better to wait for the next batch because it may have a better configuration? Thanks for your help!

zbs · 2022-05-29T12:58:54.885Z

i think this is the info you’re looking for: Approaching: norns - #2886 by dan_derks

tldr: no info on major changes has been made available, so i’m assuming there won’t be any.