That would be a lot for a second computer to connect USB-controllers to and run supercollider on after programming something on the first computer. It should have come with i2c connectivity then to interact with other devices and a mic preamp.

Maybe I do not fully get it and I am still curious about it but what would be the appeal if I still need more (battery powered) devices and cables to connect and a computer to program it.

I wonder if one can route Grid and Arc through it to the modular (as with using Switch)?

We have no idea how much can be done to modify norns engines & control scripts without access to a traditional pc.

If norns carries on the legacy of it’s predecessors (aleph + tt) which reflect a deliberate design choice and creator preference for in-the-box rerouting…quite a lot!

We might not need a seperate computer to program it

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I’ve been thinking of picking up an Organelle for a while but always held off because I was more of a Supercollider guy. Last week I was thinking about what it might take to build a dedicated Supercollider host with built in audio, and then this appears.

So glad I didn’t have to build my own thing. Looking forward to seeing more.

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I suspect you just plug a keyboard in like Teletype to program and no need for a computer.

The appeal for me is MLR without a computer and I already have a grid / arc. I plan to hook it upto the modular for live improvisation. Everything else about the programming side is a bonus and I see myself uploading user made scripts.

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Do you think there is enough screen real estate? After reading the TT script length thread, I’m beginning to wonder if they’ll allow lengthy script editing on the device itself but instead opt to include a wifi dongle for editing on the computer server/client style (edit through webpage).

I’m curious to see how/if this integrates with TT/Ansible though. Can we just connect it through usb and send it commands? use the TT/Ansible as a cv expander?

code

norns does not need to be programmed. a collection of scripts will be included and updates will bring new instruments for use with grids or midi or OSC or all by itself.

but changing code is encouraged— we’ve focussed on making this process inviting and intuitive. scripts and engines are edited through a web browser. (1)

the interface has the text editor itself, a sidebar file browser, and a command line that gives feedback from the system and allows you to type commands directly into the live environment. (2)

so yes, you can start a script and then manipulate it on the fly! but the more common case is to create a script which is saved internally (6) and then later use the script without the editor-and-other-things-computer involved.

what does a script look like? here’s a super simple one:

-- am i alive?
-- push key 3 to hear different note
-- turn encoder 2 to see a number change

engine.name = 'TestSine'

init = function()
  number = 101
  engine.hz(200)
end

key = function(n,z)
  if n==3 and z==1 then
    different = math.random() * 600
    engine.hz(different)
  end
end

enc = function(n,d)
  if n == 2 then
    number = number + d
  end
  redraw()
end

redraw = function()
  screen.clear()
  screen.move(0,10)
  screen.level(15)
  screen.text(number)
  screen.update()
end

quick explanation:

  • top three lines are comments. these get displayed when choosing a script from a list on the hardware.
  • select the sound engine with engine.name. we’re using a simple sine test.
  • the init function gets called when the engine is successfully loaded. here we just set some defaults: make a variable number, set the sine wave’s frequency to 200hz.
  • the next functions that are called when key or encoder data is generated (when you touch a key or encoder). key number n and state z is checked, if it’s key 3 pushed down we set the sine wave to a random frequency. encoder 2 will add its delta d (amount of turn, they are endless rotation) to number and then request a screen redraw.
  • a full set of screen drawing operations are available but we simply clear, position, decide how bright, then print the number. update sends it to the screen.

while i might not be impressing you with the result, it’s the journey and process that matters. adding metronomes, midi, grids (etc) all follow this level of ease. code can be reused across scripts (for example i made a quantizer and pattern recorder) (7) so scripts can build on existing structures. we’ve also built a parameter system that provides lists with ranges/properties with an onboard interface for parameter setting with saving and recall and midi cc mapping. like teletype before it, we’ve shaped norns to help you regard code as a creative asset.

modified scripts can be re-run on the hardware with a click.(8) errors and typos show up on the command line to help you fix problems. but most importantly the code becomes invisible when you don’t want to think about it— just turn it on and you’re on your way.

there’s so much more to say, but that’s it for now.

(1) via wifi. you can also just use ssh if you are one of them/us (who?)
(2) the editor (3) is a monumental effort by greg (@ngwese) which talks to the primary system (4) expertly architected by ezra (@zebra)
(3) called maiden
(4) called matron (5)
(5) further testing nesting possibilities
(6) there is capacity for a lot of scripts. you’ll more likely start to fill up the internal storage with the digital tape function (recording output straight to disk!)
(7) for mlr, that can just as well be used for an earthsea variant
(8) the old anachronistic “click”

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Norns is cross referenced.

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Can someone please explain this thing to a lay person? To someone who hasn’t coded recently and has no interest in (re)starting?

I understand what an Organelle is… and C&G has created an ecosystem that supports its use without knowing or caring about PD. They market the product as a playable instrument, rather than as an elegant open interface to custom code. The toy-like wooden buttons are an indicator, I think. A non-technical person can get comfortable with the idea of loading up community patches to an Organelle, playing it with a Keystep, whatever.

The norns looks like a prettier Organnelle for Supercollider, yet @tehn seems to imply otherwise… I’m wondering if it will require programming skills like monome, et al., and whether it will require an attached computer while music making.

Thanks in advance. Despite having no interest in buying a monome, I’ve enjoyed the lines community immensely!

@PeteCT

For a non programmer like myself this is good news. But, the encouragement to learn is there by leveraging existing resources.

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This is looking really great. :heart: :heart: :heart:

So does that mean it’s like an Organelle? Will I have to know what “OSC” means?

In other words, will we be able to open the box, plug in, dial up something cool, and start making music? Or will I spend 10 hours on lines asking dumb questions while everyone else is posting Supercollider scripts and having a different kind of fun?

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the desire some have to attach a keyboard and code totally misses the point imo (not that it couldn’t be implemented in some way. note how teletype evolved from a max patch).

norns is about having beatiful recallable user interfaces on the device. those can be altered (hey, everone has computer with a browser. that’s a spectacular way of changing the functionality, a lot of devices require special tools to flash a chip or so). but I have no doubt the preexisting (plus user contributions) will be worth it alone. I mean, some are even bubbling over with joy just having a standalone mlr.

pure excitement here!

edit: forgot to mention, scripting the thing seems so beginner friendly!

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I’m so sold on this thing! I’m always eager to try to learn some scripting / programming / coding, but I’ve yet to really get down to it. Maybe if I totally jive with this it’ll be encouragement enough to finally pick up on it. But I’m sure the collection of scripts that are already done and included will be more than enough to justify a instant purchase. It has been said many times now, but a hardware MLR is just to good. And I’m super excited to see how Norns will implement with the modular stuff, especially how it may talk to Ansible and Teletype.

Very impressed with the collective craftsmanship and work behind this thing - kudos to all involved parts!

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My 2c, based on what I’ve read so far…

Seems to me that it’s similar.

Depends if you want to use Open Sound Control messages to control it. If you’re happy using an attached grid, or MIDI device, then no.

If you’re happy to use the existing stuff and have suitable input devices, then yes.

Supercollider development isn’t required usless you’re trying to modify the DSP. Lua scripting might be required if you’re trying to change how the DSP responds to inputs.

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Seems like you’ll be able to load scripts/sounds from others pretty simply. If you want a preset box, this thing would probably not be for you, but it’s too soon to tell I think.

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Minor question that might save my job while I’m using Maiden at work: is there a dark theme?

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in my experience so far with supercollider, installation, configuration and updating have caused issues for a lot of people, although I’m comfortable with using ssh to handle these things, what will the configuration and updating procedures look like?

I haven’t tried running it on a embedded device yet, but how many stereo channels can realistically be used within the engine before passing them out to the main 1/4" outputs?

If this had SuperDirt capabilities then I can envision some pretty cool things already, but the problem there is keeping versions updated etc.

this is a wonderful detail.

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norns is further testing nesting possibilities

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Skins and themes would be a wonderful, if cosmetic, feature of the UI… I’m sure it’s all CSS anyway, so likely it’s themeable. How easily? Would be up to the CSS layout and dependency tree, but if they use some form of compiled CSS it wouldn’t be too hard to extract the key elements out into a config file and build themes from there.