#2538

In use Norns doesn’t feel like a computer. When I open Ableton I find it hard to disassociate it from the computer I’ve been using all day for work, even with the Push. Norns is its own thing. That’s just me though, others use Norns alongside Ableton and a computer. I think the most important thing to understand if you’re trying to grasp any limitations of the ecosystem is that whilst Norns can be a bunch of different things it can only be one of those things at a time. You can’t run a script that makes it a synth at the same time as a script that makes it a looper - unless you write a script that incorporates both of those things! But that’s how new scripts are born, and it’s part of the fun.

2 Likes
#2539

Yeah I’m in front of a screen all day too and I have no desire to use a computer for music these days, unless I’m mixing. I’ve got a Nebulae, so similar idea scaled down. I’ve not scratched the surface at using anything but the main granular instrument. Its all very interesting.

#2540

Wait, looking at this more…
So you need a laptop still to write the scripts anyway? And Norns doesn’t send CV? So if you want to send CV you need that Ansible? That gets expensive really fast.

Norns: help
#2541

Yes, you’ll need a laptop to write the scripts. Or, I guess, a phone or iPad - though I’ve not tried this. Norns is just a url away if you’re on the same WiFi network.

To be honest, I’m mainly in it for mlr which is a looper script. Give me a piano, a mic and mlr and tell me that’s all I’ll have for the rest of my days and I’d be utterly content. Elated! So depending on what you’re after you might not need to mess around with the scripts. That said - if, for example, you want mlr to always overdub by default - just edit the script! Hurrah!

I remember being at university when those first videos on Vimeo came out showing off the ‘monome’ and mlr all those years ago - it always seemed so out of reach! An impossible goal - to own such a thing! I’m so happy after all these years to have a grid sat on my piano next to my Norns. It feels like I’ve closed a loop.

6 Likes
#2542

is it possible to use mlr without a grid?

#2543

No, the grid really is its interface. That said, I’m not sure what the options are for mapping the controls to a different controller. There are also some other looper scripts (e.g cranes) which don’t require a grid. I’ve not done much with Norns without a grid… the two work so well…

1 Like
#2544

A couple clarifications. In theory you could write scripts with norns as with any other “headless” computer. SSH and FTP to the device to interact with it. As mentioned that could be from your phone or any other device.

But… many people might just use norns as a stand alone device just using scripts that other people have created. There’s more than a few people who might ever use just one or two scripts (like MLR).

CV - no norns does not have CV built in. There’s a device coming called Crow that will provide CV capabilities to norns (along with a pile of other stuff).

Ansible is it’s own module and not specifically related to norns

If you’re norns-curious and want to investigate it further without a big investment - its possible to get it running on Raspberry Pi without too much hassle.

2 Likes
#2545

And very beautiful. Which to me is important. It’s rad, and beautiful :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#2546

So, I know I’m playing devil’s advocate here still, but I just still don’t understand the allure of spending $800 on a stand alone computer if you are just running a pre-existing looper or a sequencer script and not editing it to your taste, when you could just buy a looper pedal and/or a sequencer for way less.

So theoretically I could get this running on the Nebulae?

#2547

I have no strong feelings any which way as everyone is on their own journey man; but the way I might approach it is: How much would you pay to customize said looper pedal and sequencer (in its own discrete durable portable form factor) to the way you work? And maybe you aren’t sure how you’d like to work yet, and trying out different methods is exciting too. Add on the education and support of the community and I think it’s worth the additional premium (plus it’s very well built).

1 Like
#2548

It sounds like you’re looking for an off the shelf looper pedal. I recommend the Boss RC-300. That should get you up and running quickly.

It could be interesting to attach a MIDI foot pedal board to Norns and implement most of the features of the Boss RC-300 in that computer. More projects for the back burners…

1 Like
#2549

There might not be anything to ‘get’. Another aspect of it is the user interface and design itself. That doesn’t matter to some people, but is everything to some.

#2550

Yall, I started a new topic for this perennial debate:

6 Likes
#2551

It may be helpful to view the language and thinking in the monome universe as highly inclusive of poetics rather than hype…

While often highly technical and specific, it is also imagistic and resonant…

1 Like
#2552

… and relatively scarce, unlike the korgs, behringers, etc. of the world. I want to explore some unique and tasty spices rather than spread ketchup on everything.

6 Likes
#2554

I’ve been exploring the Norns and I’m finding I have questions about the general concept of it:
What I see with the Norns is basically an extension of the monome mentality of inherent flexibility that is unlocked with the ongoing creativity of its users/community. This part is freaking awesome. Totally on board.

But, I’m seeing that you can really only run one script at a time. Is this correct?

I was hoping that the Norns would allow for something almost like what ‘pages’ was to us old grid hounds: a potentially stackable suite of patches, giving the ability to stack a few things on top of each other at once.

I’m seeing that it probably is not possible have mlr, a drum machine and a synth engine all running at once within the Norns, with the grid being the central input partner of the Norns handling each of these as one moves between these functions. Is that correct?

If so, then would I be correct in my reductionist view that it is flexible sound making machine that can either create or edit/record sounds, not do both at the same time?

If so, how does one create a full suite of music with the Norns? Is it always paired with other equipment?

2 Likes
#2555

imo someone just needs to make a engine like sum to solve this problem. people keep getting hung up on the fact that you can only run one engine at a time but i think a meta engine of sorts is totally possible. it might not be the full features of each engine but sum is the same way yes?

#2556

/TL/DR:

no

yes

no, you could absolutley (for example) modify MLR to also play a supercollider synth and use it for input into the sample chopping. MLR uses only the built-in buffer manipulation functions of the norns DSP backend. this process even runs on different CPU core from supercollider process and wouldn’t contend with user synthesis engine for compute resources. (well, except RAM.)

you can also make engines that do many things at once. they are just supercollider classes and SC is very flexible.

the scripting side can also be approached in a modular or chainable way. we haven’t seen a whole lot of this b/c it takes a bit of care and intention to encapsulate data in a lua program. (that said, i tend to automatically keep app state in a dedicated object as general good practice.) but it’s entirely possible to refactor a few scripts into one, some have been already structured as libraries that you can add to other scripts. (e.g. Tunnels).

speficific example, grid control is enabled by defining a global handler and refresh function. swap functions to swap modes. simpler than in Max.

now, all that said… if you want a specific thing to happen, you may need to implement it yourself, or find someone to collaborate with who is interested in the same specific thing.

norns is also not a very strong computer compared to your laptop or whatever, it has minimal UI bandwidth, and it might not make sense to treat it as an entire studio.

12 Likes
#2557

This is a very satisfactory and helpful answer! I love this idea of how this works and would be very interested in continuing to pursue the Norns in this way. I wasn’t able to really deduce how strong or capable the Norns was with something like this.

In honesty, my main goal is to basically eliminate a computer/laptop based DAW entirely. I am just hoping to make/improvise some music as a method of expression and relaxation. Building out a script on the Norns that would begin to allow that type of flexibility would be very very cool.

#2558

That will be somewhat difficult/not possible if you want to edit files. You can record your sounds to the norns ‘tape’ but norns is not a daw replacement.