#306

Very good tutorials watch the first few last night. I’m wondering will learning Sc in depth be absolutely necessary? If we can upload pre existing engines on to norns.

#307

I assume that it’s entirely optional since there will be plenty of sound engines to use that other people made. I think it’ll be much more useful to any individual musician / composer to learn a bit of lua so you can build your individual control scheme for existing engines.

I’m mainly learning supercollider because I love this sort of stuff :slight_smile:

1 Like
#308

This seems awesome. But wonder a few things:

  1. Lua seems really nice and all, but if i already know sc, would it be possible to do everything in there instead? If not, why?
  2. How is the performance compared to ”similar” devices, like Organelle? I’ve tried running sc on my Organelle and, honestly, it’s quite easy to hit the ceiling.
#309

I think the BOM - bill of materials - will possibly cost less than you imagine (other than perhaps the enclosure) - but I also think this is less relevant to the price of the object than you think. There are margins to take into account around manufacture, packaging, and shipping, the cost of performing all those actions, and the cost of developing the object. Too often “oh but the parts cost $X, I could make it cheaper!” neglects the idea that anyone anywhere is paid for their labour - not just the labour at the end, of making the final thing, but the labour throughout, of inventing, researching, and designing the thing in the first place.

48 Likes
#310

Haven’t seen Organelle, but norns is quite powerful. I’ve been doing stuff like building code while simultaneously running a granular synth with several active voices and didn’t get any audible xruns. But yeah, it’s surely possible to hit the ceiling when your patch goes off the rails.

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#311

That will require SuperCollider libraries for the display, knobs and buttons. There is also a lot of logic for peripheral device management in norns, that would be a bit tricky to implement in SC. At the bare minimum, you should have a trivial Lua script to load the engine, which can do a lot of things, but I’d recommend using Lua for all the user interaction and sequencing stuff.

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#312

Yeah, the main cost is human : research, design, programming. It takes highly skilled individuals to produce good hardware or software, and these people deserve something for their work.

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#313

Ok. But why do we want Lua instead of sclang? More efficient? Easier to learn?

#314

Compared to sclang Lua is very minimal. It’s also a bit weird and fast. In the context of norns though, learning it allows you to use the current and future libraries, scripts and community knowledge.

For learning Lua I also recommend the Learn Lua in 15 Minutes tutorial (aimed for programmers), which is a very comprehensive intro to the language.

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#315

There is also the scale of the production to consider. ‘more affordable’ means more people will buy it and this may brings unit costs down. The development costs are also less per unit. A bigger community of users also benefits most of us. The announcements sort of hint that this might be the approach. I think this could be a big seller it hits a nice spot - has a screen and is upgradable. If the talk of coding doesnt put too many people off- which it shouldnt as nice stack of community made instruments/apps /things are sitting ready for it. It should be a thing that works for what ever level of coding knowledge you can bring to it: lots or virtually none- it has something to offer to the user.
Im sure a lot of thought has been put into these things.

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#316

Yeah that’s a common thing you hear on the webs: Assuming the cost of an instrument/device is purely made up by the cost of the materials/components.
Let’s say you want to develop an instrument and for it to go from a conceptual stage (coming up with the idea/s) to it being actually in the shop, including everything listed by infovore above, it takes 6 months of – 8 hours a day x 6 days a week – hard work (but that’s just random numbers so you get the idea). Who is going to pay for your rent, food, cloths, children’s school and transport, etc.? You need to pay that from he sales of whatever you have made. Plus you’ll likely want a little extra to be in there as well, wouldn’t you?
And the time it takes to make this happen is only half the story… there’s a very fitting anecdote about Picasso who once was approached by a person who asked him to make a drawing. He scribbled something on a piece of paper and then asked for 10.000$. When the person said: “but that took you only 30 seconds to make?” he replied: “No it took me 40 years”. If this happened or not might be subject to discussion, but it’s a great story and the fact is… it takes years of hard work to be able to do something in 30 seconds, let alone to be able to do something that will take months.

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#317

Speaking of potentially apocryphal Picasso anecdotes, my favourite is about one time when he was having dinner in a restaurant and the owner asked if he’d like to pay with a drawing, to which he’s supposed to have answered “I’m paying for my dinner, not the restaurant” :slight_smile:

Anyway, I suspect Norns is not for me (unless it can have a nice enough interface for a multitracks looper) but it seems to be a very smart device and I hope it’s successful…

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#318

to underline that… this quote is from august 2016

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#319

I just want to thank you @tehn. i learned max+msp because the monome and i use it every day ! and now i’ll learn supercollider and LUA because of Norns :slight_smile:

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#320

norns_metal
norns_metal.JPG1500×1000 1.09 MB

design

we create objects. we take object-ness very seriously. objects should invite and attract and live long lives.
we’ve said this before: minimalism is difficult. proportions and functionality and finish and materials are important in equal measure. (1) we believe that when minimalism succeeds it leaves space for your own ideas and enforces less of a singular, specified agenda.

milled aluminum block, hard anodized. (2) custom molded knob and key caps. (3) recessed rubber feet. huge bright monochromatic pixels.

no distractions. no branding. no labels. (4)

future wide open.

(1) thanks to @kelli_cain’s exceptional design sensibility.
(2) 3D architecture by @r__o!
(3) we’re using the same US manufacturers that have helped bring our designs into reality since 2006.
(4) no labels was a difficult decision. with so few controls and jacks you internalize the layout within minutes. and if you prefer, a stripe of masking tape fits perfectly for mixer-style reminders.

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#321

That @r__o is a class act. Tell him to release more music or at least get the old stuff on bandcamp.

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#322

That’s a beautiful enclosure. What process gives it that hatched look? Looks different from the underside of my grid. Is that the milling or the anodizing? Looking forward to seeing it for real. I guess it will sell out in an hour or something crazy like that.

#323

I am always intrigued by the idea that the “future (is) wide open” wrt instruments. While I know you can’t commit to it at this time, have you and the team designed Norns to be upgraded/enhanced?

#324

wait, @tehn didn’t just wake up with this in the chicken coup? those little buddies are just crazy enough i wouldn’t put it past them…

1 Like
#325

I’d like to chime in if only to express how much I love this (just as I loved the Aleph). I’m excited about the integration of SuperCollider, and I’m looking forward to learning a bit of Lua!

I teach creative coding, including live-coded electronic music, to students from diverse backgrounds, and although we have a lot of fun with it, the students really crave and thrive on creative time away from their laptops. We’ve had success with utilizing Raspberry Pi, but this totally fills that need. If I’m understanding the device correctly, now they can do their SuperCollider programming, load it, step away from their laptops, and engage creatively on a deeper, more intuitive and tactile level!

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