Balance in creative pursuits

[jasonw22]

Also, what’s so great about balance (all things in moderation is the reverberation of the ancient Roman lifestyle…maybe the 21st century individual can/should go off the rails)?

Would love to have a long talk about this sometime. I’m kinda with the idea that a diverse mind is a resilient one in terms of philosophy of life, but on the other hand, there are seasons. Seasons within a day, seasons within a year, seasons within a life. Varying your focus isn’t something you have to do “all at once”. It’s OK to specialize in a moment, and shift your focus in another. This is how I approach “everything in moderation”. The trick is to avoid having every little thing distract from every other little thing, by giving each thing its full attention in its time and place.

So much easier said than done!

[sandy]

I can tell you what @Rodrigo did (and maybe he’ll chime in too): he did away with the distinction. And not that he ever worried, but with the distinction gone the worry about balance isn’t even a thing to consider. Kind of like how a flat line has a slope of 0, but a perfectly vertical line has an undefined slope.

I’m not sure I did it in a conscious way but I have certainly done away with the distinction too.
I get as much out of the stuff that is related but doesn’t directly result in music being created (whether it be trying things out in Max or deciding that I really have to rearrange my room) as I do finishing a track.

[Angela]

History of Sexuality vol. 2: The Use of Pleasure* (where Foucault describes the Roman “style of living” [which free men practiced/believed and was self-imposed])

The concept of things occurring in their time and place especially drawing an analogy to seasons is discussed in the chapter called Dietetics. He discusses them with relation to sexual practices but it’s a core set of principles that extended to every part of life.

In chapter 2 “The Moral Problematization of Pleasures” he lays the groundwork with these three parameters* from which everything had to be considered:

1. Strategy of need: is it natural. If so it is accepted.
2. Strategy of timeliness: “at the right time and in the right amount”
3. Strategy of status: act in accordance with your place in society

based on the concepts of
Enkratia - the right mean between insensitivity and excess
and Sophrosyne - the superiority of reason over desire

“If you pay attention, you can feel Rome fall 9 times an hour” -McKenna (re time wave zero)

*edits

[Rodrigo]

[quote=“sellanraa, post:1, topic:7131”]
The problem is that the music-making is back to feeling less immediate. There’s the investment of time without seeing the ‘reward’.[/quote]

So what’s the “reward” in this context?
And would you say this (im)balance is specific to programming?
Surely the same could be said for learning an (acoustic) instrument, like in @abalone’s example above about Charlie Parker.

I can tell you what @Rodrigo did (and maybe he’ll chime in too): he did away with the distinction. And not that he ever worried, but with the distinction gone the worry about balance isn’t even a thing to consider.

Yeah exactly. For me, and my practice in general (god I hate saying that, but it sums up what I mean here), any distinction at all is useless, especially when it comes to technical issues. I view programming as a part of the creative act itself, on multiple levels. For one, the poetic interpretation of the act itself being beautiful and engaging (which I completely believe), but in addition it is also performance, in a slightly temporally displaced way. As in, decisions you make while programming are near-compositional decisions, which will manifest at some point, that point just happens to be in the future.

This process of taking off a musician hat and putting on a programmer hat works in other ways.

I guess for what I do, in specific, there are so many hats, that the idea of hats itself is meaningless (as @angela pointed out).

In general, I think there’s a tendency to look down on technical things (programming specifically) as something that’s in service of something else, whereas one wouldn’t necessarily draw the same conclusion when talking about practicing an acoustic instrument, or writing a song, or lyrics, etc… These can all be meandering ‘pointless’ activities, with very little reward (or at least a shitty time/reward ratio).

So in my opinion, screw balance. Do what you want to do, no matter what it is (and hopefully it’s not investment banking!). Don’t worry if it’s useful, or meaningful, just do whatever it is. If it’s useful in something else, cool, if not, that’s cool too.

[sellanraa]

Thanks for all the input/wisdom/insights. I really am glad I’m a part of such a thoughtful community.

[emenel]

I’ve been thinking about all my creative output (music, design, art, programming, corporate consulting) as one body of work. When I evaluate how much effort I want to put into something I think about if I think it will add something to my body of work, practice, and/or knowledge. Is it something I will be happy to have done, for whatever reason? If so, I do it. Those reasons can be creative, financial, practical, learning oriented… anything really.

I love @Rodrigo’s questioning of “reward” as a concept… so important.

I also love @Angela’s and @sandy’s dissolution of boundaries between modes and acts.

Very inspired to work on something.

[jasonw22]

Serious hat.

[fjna]

https://mrpsmythopedia.wikispaces.com/Hercules

Am I the only one who sees the resemblance?

[TheTechnobear]

Fascinating subject, and one I ‘beat myself up over’ quite regularly.

Perhaps though this depends upon your background and intent.
Im a programmer by trade, and making music is a hobby with an intent to do something different, to explore a different side.

One side of me (the programming side) loves to have options, create options, build and make new things - but it, obviously, can distract/take free time away, from the act of making music. I also have a (guilty) feeling, that because programming is ‘easy’ for me (compared to music making) perhaps its a form of procrastination, spend time building instruments, rather than using them.

Its funny, I believe that programming (or any kind of tool making) is no less creative that music making, albeit, a different kind of creativity, a different kind of expression/exploration.
so I do wonder why the ‘guilt’?

is this due to society having this divide of engineering/art? tool maker vs tool user?
many instruments can be considered a work of art, so is a Luthier an artist?

I have at times considered ‘letting go’, does it really matter, if I just wander where my passions take me, perhaps its a cycle, once I’ve built what I want, I will sit down more comfortably with it - perhaps exploring music through the (technical) skills I have is the best way for me.

(but then again, perhaps thats my dark/programming side, just trying to justify itself ;))

thanks for the posts, its giving me a lot of food for thought.

[sellanraa]

Just to be clear, I value the process and am not disrespecting (or at least not intending to) the programmer side of things, but I come from the other side as more of a musician and less of a programmer. So in many ways, the programming is a tool/vehicle to accomplish my goal of making music.

[Rodrigo]

Its funny, I believe that programming (or any kind of tool making) is no less creative that music making, albeit, a different kind of creativity, a different kind of expression/exploration.so I do wonder why the ‘guilt’?

is this due to society having this divide of engineering/art? tool maker vs tool user?many instruments can be considered a work of art, so is a Luthier an artist?

Yeah that’s a good question. I would be tempted to say that it’s a profession vs art thing, but we put such artificial emphasis on making art into a profession anyways, that that can’t be it (sensibly).
Maybe a high art vs low art thing?
Maybe just how our emphasis on history has leaned as humans (remembering composers but not (by and large) performers, and much less instrument/tool makers).

[jasonw22]

There are various social perceptions that would vary depending on your background. And the other thing will vary is how much weight you give to such perceptions. For me? Nearly zero at this point in my life, but when I was a teenager there was immense pressure to regard creativity as a hobby and technical pursuits as career.

And regardless how I feel about social and self perceptions at this point in my life, I can’t change the way my upbringing shaped me. Turns out I’m kind of a natural tool maker. And I have relatives that grew up with very different sets of expectations who make their living teaching band and art classes to high school kids. Did our parents push us in the right directions? Were they accurate in their appraisal of our talents and proclivities? And what about change? All that happened decades ago, so how much bearing should it have on the present?

A rather less-than-terse way to express the universal answer to life’s questions: “it depends”.

[papernoise]

I like the direction this thread has taken… much to think about.
Just now that I was considering to get back into PD a bit…

And yes… @Rodrigo: instrument makers certainly deserve much more emphasis then what they get, especially in electronic music where the boundaries between composition and instrument making is really a very blurred one.
I mean, even if you play a “classic” analogue subtractive keyboard synth (one free from presets of course), whoever designed that did only 50% of the work. The remaining 50% are done by the musician, in the moment he or she makes a patch/sound. The circuit in a synth is not a static design, instrument makers define ranges of possibilities more than the actual sounds. Seen from this point of view designing the instrument becomes really part of the compositional act, and the natural next step is go one level deeper and start to design the very foundation of your instrument(s).

[joemcmahon]

Concret PH is one of my favorite things EVER. Nice to see someone else likes it too!

[glia]

thanks for all your contributions to this thread

lot’s of food for personal thought as I’m presently in flux (creatively)

[abalone]

@glia we’ve heard your work
you’re an amazing artist

[glia]

I appreciate you saying so
but I’m still grappling with the issues mentioned above

I currently feel really well-balanced but the tension/frustration has been unbearable at certain points in my life

Learning curve for me is a couple of years whether a tool is software based or not + my best work is generally the result of attaining a level of peace with how the instrument fits into my environment

Once I’ve reached that point I might still shelve it for months + I feel less pressure than ever to use every device (or one device in particular) on every song or recording session

[rick_monster]

Learning curve for me is a couple of years whether a tool is software based or not

interesting datapoint! So do you think it actually matters much how intensely you study or practice the new toy/instrument in isolation from the other bits? How much regular usage is the threshold in order to have a new electronic device eventually enter your ‘vocabulary’?

Interesting parallel with the world of jazz, where it requires a certain discipline to not play the licks you practiced today when you improvise on tonights gig, rather play whatever you can that serves the music best. My perception there is that the deeper you go into a transcription/lick/exercise, the better. Regular repetition/revision is almost unnecessary, and something thing practiced deeply months ago will eventually come out naturally…

[jasonw22]

Practice is a funny thing. Your brain will learn whatever you practice, even if it’s wrong! So much of my guitar playing right now is just unlearning bad habits.

There is no limit on it though. Practice more, learn more. When we talk about a learning curve taking a certain amount of time, what do we mean? Amount of time to move from being a complete novice to some kind of journeyman? or time to mastery? I’d argue that mastery of nearly any activity can take a lifetime.

[glia]

I should’ve more clearly stated: learning curve can be several years for me. There are some things I’ve taken to quite easily.

So do you think it actually matters much how intensely you study or practice the new toy/instrument in isolation from the other bits? How much regular usage is the threshold in order to have a new electronic device eventually enter your ‘vocabulary’?

hard to tell because I never have regular time to practice (in the traditional sense that I’m sure you’re referring to). It’s good you asked though

The distinction, for me, lies more with a mental curve than motor/mechanical skills attempting to achieve mastery. I’m able to make music with these things but I don’t feel I reached a level of competence with them (competence is pretty hard to define tho). I changed my standards at times. Usually reaching the end of the curve and achieving “competence” means ability to personally impose my “voice” on the instrument. Or I feel comfortable enough with the physical/conceptual interface to produce something unexpected (something I’d been unable to create at all or so easily prior to learning the best methods with said tool).

As an example I’ve had multiple curves with modular synth. First built my tiny system 4 yrs ago and recorded/sampled it all the while…however, I didn’t make much that sounded like ME until summer and fall of 2015. Even then most of those moments were isolated and accidental (I still celebrated the progress and kept pushing forward).

Last May I feel like I completely broke thru. September’s sessions confirmed this assessment because I was able to reliably and repeatedly conjure up new sounds that all fit within my personal voice as a musician.