20 characters of DnD 5e
Since we’re talking about board games, anyone playing Go?
It is said that…
"Baduk board is the universe;
the points are the stars.
White and Black are fighting;
There’re sighing and laughing.
Baduk games are like our lives."
Go is an amazing game, with simple rules, and a life time of learning possibility.
If you want to know more, I recommend seeing some videos on youtube and creating a account on OGS, a great and free online go community. Also, feel free to PM me so we start a match!
20 characters of love!
I wish I had more time to play DnD.
here is me getting destroyed by @r__o
tactility is a large part of what’s so wonderful about this game, like table tennis. i’ve had a hard time getting into virtual versions, but i may need to commit if i want to get better…
Haven’t played 5e (stopped around 3.5), but I’ve played RPGs on and off since I think 1988 or 89 (TMNT and Other Strangeness in the 4th grade!). Good timing though, as I’m about to sit down and play (on Roll20) a game of Torchbearer which is a fantastic RPG if you want an intelligent and unique twist on classic dungeon crawls. It was produced by the people who made Mouse Guard and Burning Wheel too
Torchbearer is excellent but its abstractions make it hard to get to table. Luke Crane (I think that’s his name?) is a ludicrously good designer.
I got limited interest after an initial teaser session. I found more success in hacking 5th Edition to have some of Torchbearer’s abstractions of light, weight, health, etc.
5th Edition is really, really well done. I used to maintain a blog that used Excel formulas to chart the various power curves in 5th but nobody read it so I gave up. Short answer: 5th is like a dope, well-tuned interaction of Maths and Batumi, with selective attenuversion over time.
Yeah, most people are just stuck on D&D and are content and have a good time - which is totally cool, but I’m tired of buying variations from the same company. Basic, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all offer nice things, and I’d happily play any of those, just tired of buying new books every few years with the implication that the old versions are somehow inferior.
That said, I try not to endlessly buy new games (since I so rarely play anymore), but the Burning Wheel family is a no-brainer. But yeah, it is hard to recruit locally, so - here I am online learning it from some other folks online. The game has been running roughly every other week for just over a year now, which is a pretty great run. Having a good time still.
Try playing on Slack. Trust me.
I used to work for a game developer that did online RPGs, and some of us played tabletop stuff. 3rd edition, 3.5, 4, Pathfinder, all heavy on the miniatures tactical combat stuff. Also Vampire (the 2000s-ish edition) but that one was kind of contentious.
For the non-RPG gaming we did, there was a pretty serious M:TG contingent, but Settlers of Catan is what I preferred, with occasional Zombies! and Munchkin.
“Let us take a limited example and compare the war machine and the state apparatus in the context of the theory of games. Let us take Chess and Go, from the standpoint of game pieces, the relations between the pieces and the space involved. Chess is a game of the State, or of the court: the emperor of China played it. Chess pieces are coded; they have an internal nature and intrinsic properties from which their movements, situations, and confrontations derive. They have qualities; a knight remains a knight, a pawn a pawn, a bishop a bishop. Each is like a subject of the statement endowed with relative power, and these relative powers combine in a subject of enunciation, that is, the chess player or the game’s form of interiority. Go pieces, I contrast, are pellets, disks, simple arithmetic units, and have only an anonymous, collective, or third-person function: “It” makes a move. “It” could be a man, a woman, a louse, an elephant. Go pieces are elements of a nonsubjectified machine assemblage with no intrinsic properties, only situational ones. Thus the relations are very different in the two cases.
Within their milieu of interiority, chess pieces entertain biunivocal relations with one another, and with the adversary’s pieces: their functioning is structural. One the other hand, a Go piece has only a milieu of exteriority, or extrinsic relations with nebulas or constellations, according to which it fulfills functions of insertion or situation, such as bordering, encircling, shattering. All by itself, a Go piece can destroy an entire constellation synchronically; a chess piece cannot (or can do so diachronically only). Chess is indeed a war, but an institutionalized, regulated, coded war with a front, a rear, battles. But what is proper to Go is war without battle lines, with neither confrontation nor retreat, without battles even: pure strategy, whereas chess is a semiology.
Finally, the space is not at all the same: in chess, it is a question of arranging a closed space for oneself, thus going from one point to another, of occupying the maximum number of squares with the minimum number of pieces. In Go, it is a question of arraying oneself in an open space, of holding space, of maintaining the possibility of springing up at any point: the movement is not from one point to another, but becomes perpetual, without aim or destination, without departure or arrival. The “smooth” space of Go, as against the “striated” space of chess. The nomos of Go against the State of chess, nomos against polis. The difference is that chess codes and decodes space, whereas Go proceeds altogether differently, territorializing and deterritorializing it (make the outside a territory in space; consolidate that territory by the construction of a second, adjacent territory; deterritorialize the enemy by shattering his territory from within; deterritorialize oneself by renouncing, by going elsewhere…) Another justice, another movement, another space-time.
Just played Captain Sonar amd it was the most stressful game I’ve ever played. It’s an RPG-adjacent team-based Battleship basically where you do a militarized version of hide and seek. I enjoyed it, but I think I can only play it once a year.
Torchbearer is so different you kinda have to run it, fail, think about it, try again…
It was the same with Burning Wheel. First time trying it we all tried to play it as an RPG driven by skills / stats and that just didn’t work.
Torchbearer is the same. If you play it like, say, DND, you end up tired and ragged and hungry and… dead. The mechanics are so different.
I can’t say we ever succeeded at it, while we got to the point that BW with the Artha driven mechanics worked fairly naturally.
I’ve only dabbled in Go but have always loved this Wiki article about a famous match:
Yeah, I don’t think you necessarily die, unless our GM is a softie (he probably is as we have camped and gotten to town when we most need to, but he’s a great ambassador for the game and has patiently worked with me on learning it on a deeper level - which seems to take awhile!). That said, it’s definitely a more grueling experience (‘the grind’ being an indicator) and it’s creating a lot of stress in aspects of adventure that aren’t a reality in most other games.
Fundamentally, I think the BW family of games appeals because it operates on the Beliefs, Instincts, and Traits. You’re rewarded for both playing on those, but also playing against them. All the other stuff offers interesting twists on a more traditional RPG, but on a foundational level that approach of BITs is a lot more interesting that what most games are based upon.
I feel like Burning Wheel, in my limited (back in the Revised days) experience, is a lot more complex and it probably doesn’t benefit the game. I like that Torchbearer seems to be the happy medium with depth and complexity, without being totally overwhelming.
What do you mean about playing on Slack? Like, a play by message/text game? We play via voice chat on Discord with the Roll20 software dealing with the mechanics. I did a chat based game in the mid-90s AOL/TSR days and it was fun, but I don’t know that I would do it today due to being so time consuming. I’d probably be way too active (like I am here!) and not be as productive.
We played a LOT of BW until it was pretty much internalized. Now it just seems obvious. At first it felt like it got in the way but in the end, if the game is the story, and the storytelling is much better because people are motivated to act as the character…
… my character in our main campaign (quite a while ago now) ended up losing a hand, becoming completely vengeance obsessed, and retiring after slaying his nemesis. Playing out the arc took about two years. But his vision was ALWAYS on that bastard who was going to pay.
Yeah, I’m trying to find a Burning Wheel or Mouse Guard game for an every other week sort of thing online, but these are such niche games, nothing has panned out. I’d definitely love to give BW a shot again. Strangely, I find that Luke and co. are very similar to how I perceive the Monome team. It’s art that deserves support and the community that has grown around it operates philosophically in similar ways as ‘the company’ and I really find these little niche communities of goodness a beautiful thing. At GenCon, Luke was talking about the influence of Dischord Records at a panel session and I felt like that was good confirmation that they were my tribe.
So yeah, I buy all the BW family of games even if it’s unlikely that I’ll play them. Other games, I don’t really even bother buying anymore since I so rarely get a chance to play RPGs - why support some company like Hasbro if I won’t play 5e? I actually sold A LOT of my games to fund my case and first few modules about 5 or 6 years ago
Mouse guard we played for a few months. Felt so… weak
You sold your games? Sigh. Don’t tell my partner. We have a large bookcase of rpg’s that she’d rather wasn’t that. But my son plays (pathfinder and 3e and 5e) and I still do occasionally, so… the shelf stays full!
I think your comments about Luke et al are very insightful. I’ve never met him but the vibe is pretty much as you describe when I do interact with web stuff…
Sold SOME of my games. I still have Basic, 1, 2, and 3rd edition + related basic world books for Greyhawk/Forgotten Realms/Dragonlance. I have a full shelf of Ars Magica (another game I’d love to play that I’ve only demoed once or twice at GenCon 20 years ago). Plus, almost the entire Twilight:2000 collection. A few assorted other books too, like I can’t sell my TMNT and Other Strangeness book that was my first. Plus, yeah, the indie game shelf which is basically Burning Wheel, Colonial Gothic (debated introducing that into my American history class), and Apocalypse World.
But all the modules, and extra world sourcebooks, plus random games I never played but was curious about (Earthdawn, L5R, D6 Star Wars, Rifts sourcebooks, blah blah) etc. etc. - yeah, I unloaded those. But hey, it got me a Monorocket M6C, Maths, Echophon, and Phonogene back in the day…or a large chunk of that was paid for with game books, so - I consider that a win
Seems like we like the same stuff!
I have pretty much everything from them. Ran a campaign for a while but it didn’t really fit the sensibilities of my group. I actually went on a trip in Europe inspired by Ars Magica (with my son, though for him it was more about history not the game itself).
The only games I got rid of were Morrow Project, Aftermath, and Bushido, all very early games. And I regret it.
Don’t get me thinking about what modules I could get by selling my games!
Weirdest game I have is Robin Laws bronze age hill fort game. VERY odd.