#42

it is, but i can understand how it’s unexpected / undesired. i’ve found it super useful when you want to record a pattern using only arc – and it becomes really cool when you mix in grid patterns working along/against it. but i get where you’re coming from and will consider alternatives!

arc patterns are not saved with collections yet :sweat_smile:. soon!

yes! here’s the process:

  • select your pad
  • press the third key in Zilchmo’s fourth row: [ ] [ ] [x] [ ]
  • this will set your loop window to 1/16th of the current bpm
  • use keys 1 + 3 in Zilchmo’s fourth row: [x] [ ] [x] [ ]
  • this will double the pad’s loop window (1/8,1/4,1/2,1 bar)
2 Likes
#43

I am not understanding.
Could you please explain the logic of this a bit more, so that I can wrap my head around it better?

And thanks for the instructions on keeping things locked to the BPM.

:facepunch::heart:

#44

sorry, i changed my wording as you were replying.

while typing this out, I realized how to improve it. so, take it for what it is at the moment :) and tysm for the question about it!

right now, arc pattern recording + playback works like this:

  • while recording, cheat codes remembers which pad + parameter arc is affecting. this way, you can record arc automation for many different pads and play it back in a long stream of changes.
  • during playback, if the current-playing pad is not the pad that has arc automation, cheat codes won’t apply the arc automation to the current-playing pad – only when the current-playing pad is the pad with the arc automation will the automation affect the current-playing pad. this is desirable.
  • this creates a weird case, though – if I record a multi-pad arc pattern and i’m not also recording a grid pattern at the same exact time, how should arc play back the per-pad automation if i’m not changing pads? to combat this, i have it currently scripted so that any time a pad change happened during the arc recording, arc will force that pad into focus during playback.
  • i also found that if i DO have a grid pattern playing while the arc pattern is playing, it creates a nice amount of change + difference with every grid pattern loop – by having arc interject, there’s a lot of variety.
3 Likes
#45

Thank you, Dan!
I can see the conundrum of it a bit better now.
I guess I was anticipating the arc recording to be something that was to be saved “per pad”, and simply start from the beginning every time that pad was pressed or played by the grid pattern. That would (at least in my mind) be the intuitive behavior.

As to locking the loop durations to BPM.
Looks like the method you described works perfectly.
now,
not to sound picky/ungrateful (see my note below)…
should these durations then reflect changes made to the BPM?
(I see that they don’t, but am curious about your thinking here.)

IMPORTANT:
In any case, I am very much excited about the CC! Definitely one of my favorite apps on norns (if not THE favorite!)

2 Likes
#46

oh that does sound really nice! i think we’re just coming to the edge of performance modalities. i can definitely see how having arc patterns per pad would be nice in certain situations. i’ll keep mulling, for sure. would an arc overview video be helpful in the meantime? just to illustrate the modalities designed for?

for the bpm q, there isn’t an automatic adjustment being made. you’d have to hold grid ALT and press that 1/16th key to recalculate all of the pads with the new bpm. you’ll then have to do the doubling process again.

as an aside, bpm changes do affect patterns recorded in “quant” and “quant+trim” modes — the patterns will slow down or speed up in time. it’s a nice effect :slight_smile:

super curious to learn more about how you’re using cc in your workflow! thank you for the kind words and engaging in these ideas :revolving_hearts:

3 Likes
#47

oh yes!
definitely!
thank you!

#48

I’d love to see this as well if you get around to it.
Arc pattern recording is something I haven’t explored at all yet.

2 Likes
#49

How about a WILD CARD combo that randomizes e v e r y t h I n g to jump-start a new collection or to stir the pot and take wild chances?!

(for example pressing ALT + META, or the unused buttons on the bottom of META page, or some other K-press on norns with a screen prompt)

#50

interesting – can you share what you are really jonesing for as far as randomization? currently, the random Pattern function randomizes, pad pitch, pad direction, and pad start/end points, in addition to creating random Patterns. and then you can randomize panning with the normal method (ALT + random panning Zilchmo). and you can get random loop windows on-the-fly with [ ] [x] [x] [ ] in Zilchmo’s fourth row. i feel like some things want to remain constant (levels, for sure), but i’m totally open to adding more to the function :slight_smile:

(edit: dang, it also sounds like a ‘random’ video might be good too. @laborcamp, these are excellent q’s! thank you for asking them.)

fwiw, this resets the counter on [timing] – shooting video about this menu today :grinning:

#51

I love the current randomization features. Messing with these got me imagining a situation where a single command “populates” all the pads in all the banks with, then creates randomized patterns, with all zilchmo settings also set to random. This would not necessarily lead to most “cohesive” outcomes, but it might lead to some discoveries both sonically and also in terms of how particular CC function combinations lead to unexpected results.

Anyway: mostly was thinking of a playful act of wild randomness as sometimes very satisfying experience.

My Piston Honda mk3 has a kind of “randomize all” function that sometimes yields very exciting results, which is also why I was thinking of some such chance operations here.

1 Like
#52

gotcha – totally agreed!

totally makes sense to include random zilchmo functions peppered in throughout the randomly generated Pattern. but also, maybe just being able to add some random Zilchmos to a non-randomly generated Pattern. i can imagine this getting super weird and super fun. excellent idea!

3 Likes
#53

hey @dan_derks,first of all really great update, love the new timing sync option.
i tried sync my fates with ableton using twohost from @okyeron. i can send midi clock to ableton fine with no problem, but haven’t succeeded to slave fates from ableton.
i did set clock to external:midi in cheatcodes param, and i noticed on the ableton - preferences - midi, the twohost midi out have 2 option for syncing, song or pattern. tried both option but none have worked. any ideas?

also i want to ask about saving pattern on the meta sequencing page. it seems i can’t save the pattern i just played (i must have missed something obvious). i tried to follow your manual instructions, but haven’t succeeded.

for example i record a pattern on bank A, switch to meta page, i press n hold the top left button of the first row, but the led button won’t change brightness to indicate that it has been saved, it just stayed dim…

thanks

Indra

#54

thanks for the kind words, indra! excited for you to be using cheat codes :slight_smile:

using two MIDI interfaces, I’m able to sync fine by:

  • setting clk source to MIDI in the [timing] menu (or PARAMS works too)
  • setting MIDI Ports Output to Sync and Song

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and then pressing play just works (the counter on [timing] starts/stops when Live’s transport starts/stops

any errors showing up in maiden when you hold for 1 second?

#55

hey dan, thanks so much for the suggestions, will try it soon, i need to do some work first. i didn’t open maiden the last time i played with cheatcodes :sweat_smile: will report back later. thanks!

#56

the midi sync works! yeaay, thanks dan!

so after i hold for 1 sec in meta-page, this message showed up in maiden :

/home/we/dust/code/cheat codes/cheat_codes.lua:2773: standard output file is closed

stack traceback:

[C]: in function 'io.write'

/home/we/dust/code/cheat codes/cheat_codes.lua:2773: in global 'save_pattern'

/home/we/dust/code/cheat codes/cheat_codes.lua:2717: in global 'test_save'

/home/we/dust/code/cheat codes/cheat_codes.lua:65: in field 'event'

/home/we/norns/lua/core/metro.lua:169: in function </home/we/norns/lua/core/metro.lua:166>

EDIT : ok, i just erased and install the script again, now the pattern save seems working. i noticed and just remembered, before i erased the script name was ‘cheat codes’, now ‘cheat_codes’ with underscore. i think i remembered reading somewhere that it causes some issues…ok all good now, thanks dan!

1 Like
#57

dope re: midi sync!! what changed?

dope re: underscore! yes yes, underscore is super critical for the write system :slight_smile:

(thanks for the follow-up, @indraperkasa)

#58

re: midi sync
i’m not sure actually :sweat_smile: i followed your screenshot setting , only turn on the sync button on the midi out setting. i think before i was turning on the track and sync button, but i’m not sure if that was the issue. anyway, this is dope!

1 Like
#59

[timing] tutorial!

this one gets into the nitty gritty of each of the four Pattern-record modes and showcases a beat-centric workflow. hopefully it’ll help inspire new approaches and experiments :slight_smile:

please let me know what else y’all want covered!
i have arc interactions on my list, but it’d be awesome to know what folks would like to see deep dives into. thank you as always for the positivity + warmth :revolving_hearts:

33 Likes
#60

Hell yah! Gonna watch this when I have a break! Which, given my life will be next week. lol

Thanks for all the hard work Dan. This is huge.

Yo, this timing tutorial is freaking ACE. Holy crap. This plus that Polyend Track and my OP-1 and I’ll just never use anything else ever again. Throw that rack in the garbage, I’m done!

2 Likes
#61

+1 for Arc walkthrough :slight_smile:

1 Like