Complex Live Looping Setup Help!

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-15T09:20:35.086Z

I used the “mon send” and kept getting phased out/distorted signals from all the instruments. A bit stuck with the sends…hmmmm…thank you guys again for the advice posted already, almost there completing this setup.

steveoath · 2017-08-15T16:43:25.443Z

Looks like the “Mon send” is a monitor channel.

The FX send looks like where you want to place the looper then return via stereo retrun L/R.

This means you can use the aux FX control on your instrument channels to send you signal to the looper.

I think!! Never did live looping before!

IMG_20170815_174058685_HDR|281x500

kisielk · 2017-08-15T19:13:27.533Z

You can use the FX send to go out to the looper, but this is post-fader. Also if you’re doing that, make sure you turn off the internal FX (FX Master) knob. The mon send should work, it’s a pre-fader send controlled by the MON AUX knob of each channel.

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-15T22:53:53.303Z

Thank you all so much for the replies thus far. I’ve got the idea of it, but for some reason I’m gettin phased out/distorted sounds from each instrument, with the volume all over the place too. Hmmm…

Jonny · 2017-08-15T23:11:27.633Z

Maybe the looper can’t handle the level coming out? Have you tried different inputs of the looper?

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-16T00:25:58.422Z

I’ve tried the different mains of the looper, didn’t seem to do the trick yet.

kisielk · 2017-08-16T03:29:43.966Z

Are you turning down or muting the channel that you’re sending to the looper? Because if you don’t, you’ll get two versions of the sound: that which is passing through the channel as normal, and that which is passing through the looper. The phasing is probably due to the fact the signal coming out of the looper will be slightly delayed compared to the normal signal.

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-16T04:07:33.234Z

I tried turning it down and muting it, still getting the phasing sound, and the volumes of each particular instrument are super low now, coming out even lower once the phrase is looped. ahh!!!

madeofoak · 2017-08-16T04:29:33.454Z

a phasing sound with a looper / Ableton setup is generally the result of an input being both directly monitored AND monitored through Live. I would guess you have your loopers set up with the Input > Output setting at something besides “Never”, while also having the input monitored either through the mixer or your interface.

If there’s a way to do it, could you please post a diagram of your entire setup? And if possible, find a place to upload your Ableton patch so we could examine it? I do similar stuff with Ableton all the time and am happy to help, but it’s tough to tell where you’re going wrong with the information provided.

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-16T04:50:57.282Z

I’ll try and figure out a way to post a diagram of the entire setup, I know the photos don’t really offer too much insight. As far as looping goes, I’m using a hardware looper, the Boss RC-300,. I’m not doing any looping in Ableton whatsoever. I’m mainly using Ableton for midi keys/drums etc…as well as using it for polygome/press cafe etc. with the Monome. Thank you so much for lending a helping hand my friend. Let me know if this clears anything up at all.

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-16T12:32:42.870Z

After noodling with my setup on and off for a while, I still haven’t gotten it quite right yet. Again, thank you guys for sharing insight and advice. I’m probably the one setting it up wrong as it seems like such a simple fix haha.

madeofoak · 2017-08-16T22:34:47.112Z

it really does clear things up. I would just agree with the others above in encouraging you to use the looper on one of the mixer’s aux send channels, making sure that no audio from the input to the looper ever goes directly to the output of the looper, though brief googling didn’t reveal whether or not that’s possible with an rc-300.

bachelard · 2017-08-19T19:19:11.049Z

Like others said, I use the two Aux sends (post-fader) of my Mackie 1202-VLZ Pro to send all my sound sources - Eurorack, other synths/samplers, live bamboo flutes - through looper/fx pedals and a Eurorack sampler/delay. One Aux send (the FX Send on your mixer) goes out into my Eventide Timefactor --> reverb pedal --> back to the Aux return (ST Return on your mixer), and the other Aux goes into my Eurorack sampler Reflex Liveloop, and the module output goes into one of the stereo input channels so I can control the level a bit better. On that channel, the Aux 2 level is at 0 so its output doesn’t feedback onto itself.

I have the Aux levels on all channels, Aux Master and Return levels all at noon (Unity) position and haven’t experienced any clipping problems as long as I manage the individual input channel levels. And then everything goes out the main outputs of the mixer. I’ve had my setup for live performance many times and haven’t had any level problems.

For your set up, then, you’d connect all your sound sources (computer via Audio 6, TC voice pedal, Yamaha) into individual input channels. Connect the FX Send outputs to the inputs of your RC-300, and the outputs of the RC-300 to the ST Return, and you use the yellow knobs on each channel to control how much signal from each channel goes into the looper, and the ST RTN fader to control the level coming from the RC. If you’re not recording anything in Ableton and using it mainly as an instrument/drums playback, you’d just route the output of your laptop/audio interface into an input channel on the mixer into the PA. You want to make sure you’re not sending any audio back into Ableton with channel inputs and monitoring turned on in Ableton, which is where you might be getting distorted/phased sounds.

Hope this helps!

Arithmetikmusiq · 2017-08-20T23:33:52.198Z

Thank you so much, that was very insightful and got everything running smoothly. Big thanks to everyone who posted in this thread for the help as well!

veitch · 2020-02-17T15:31:14.000Z

I don’t know how to hook all these up; in what order?

Here’s a flow chart I put together to show you how I think it possibly should go. But I run into problems when I try to record something i’m making with live looping into Logic.

I’m still trying to work out midi clock and where that should come from. Ideally I’d be able to use the set up without the computer connected too.

Will you let me know what you think?

I don’t understand pre-faders, post faders, busses or aux sends yet.

One thing I really don’t get is what should be the master of the the midi clock?

TheTechnobear · 2020-02-17T16:26:13.085Z

audio looks good, id probably setup the looper on the sub bus,
though, if you’re happy with mono, then you could aux send.

midi, the mixers usb is for audio only (mixer acts as a audio interface) it does not handle midi.

so you need a usb - midi din converter.
you can get a cheap single din one, then go
laptop -> usb/midi din -> looper -> (thru) volca

or get a usb midi hub, that has multiple outputs so it can go directly to both looper and volca
(id probably do this esp. as your synth might also want clock for things like sync’d lfos, or get midi sequencing data from your computer )

who is master? usually the computer/daw is master, then set everything else to slave.

standalone… will require just then a couple of minor changes
set the looper to be midi clock master (as you computer is no longer there)
then take midi out (rather than thru) of looper into volca

veitch · 2020-02-17T16:51:50.017Z

Gahlord:

When you make music with your gear now how do you set it up?

Or did you recently just get a bunch of gear that you’ve never had before?

For example, how do you currently work with your looper?

Also: what are you wanting to do with your equipment set up? Record yourself? A band? What kind of music?

I’ve been using the looper to make fun stuff in my bedroom and then I’ve made things separately on my computer using logic, a mic and a DAW but I’d like to combine the two so I don’t have to separate and reconnect everything and so I can record directly what I’m making in the looper into Logic.

veitch · 2020-02-17T16:59:29.799Z

audio looks good, id probably setup the looper on the sub bus,

I’m really sorry but I don’t know what this means.

though, if you’re happy with mono, then you could aux send.

Same with this. I’m googling aux send but still finding it hard to understand.

midi, the mixers usb is for audio only (mixer acts as a audio interface) it does not handle midi

Gotcha. So I need to send the midi clock separately, not through the mixer.

so you need a usb - midi din converter. you can get a cheap single din one, then go laptop → usb/midi din → looper → (thru) volca

I think I actually have one of these. But this would mean that the laptop is controlling the clock.
What if i have no laptop connected? Could I go
looper → usb/midi din → computer
and
looper → usb/midi din → volca
?

or get a usb midi hub, that has multiple outputs so it can go directly to both looper and volca (id probably do this esp. as your synth might also want clock for things like sync’d lfos, or get midi sequencing data from your computer)

Great. I have one of these
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41Po3qr14aL.AC.jpg

I expect that would work?
I find it hard to work out whether, for instance, my Pocket Piano is sending midi clock data or actual midi notes.

standalone… will require just then a couple of minor changes set the looper to be midi clock master (as you computer is no longer there) then take midi out (rather than thru) of looper into volca

Could I set the looper to always be the midi clock master? Then when I connected my computer would take that as the master?

Thanks!

TheTechnobear · 2020-02-17T18:57:40.548Z

yeah, so your midisport looks great for the midi…

yes, you could set your looper to be master, and logic as slave - that’s the simplest way at least to get started.

audio : sub mix
so on your mixer, each track has 2 buttons sub and main
if you have sub pressed on it, then that tracks output will be sent to the sub mix
if you have main, it will sent to the main mix
(you can have both pressed)

so by using sub, you could record on your looper one or more of the tracks.
the advantage of submix is its stereo, and you can also choose to just monitor its output on your headphones… oh and its a nice big control to slide up : )
the disadvantage is you cannot control the individual levels of tracks going into the sub mix.

aux send is similar…
but you just have a gain (for aux) amount on each track.
the advantage is you can control the gain for each track individually
the disadvantage is its mono, an you cannot monitor it individually

either will work,
more details on both in the manual

btw: it’s a good idea to get familiar with both, and see what works for you.

good luck

veitch · 2020-02-18T11:01:16.719Z

Great!
Thanks everyone.
I worked out aux send and return and have the looper connected to that.
I couldn’t get the guitar to sound right sending it out for effects and then back to the mixer and then was unsure how to get it out again to the looper and then back in again so I ended up going
Guitar -> Effects -> Mixer -> Looper -> Mixer
instead of

Guitar -> Mixer -> Effects -> Mixer -> Looper -> Mixer

Working great with the midi clock. But I’ve yet to connect my computer to it. We shall see!