#61

Question! How’s it sound when you use a static offset of the phase output to FM whichever oscillator gets phase shifted there? I’ve been playing around with this using the delay on my Disting and it can do make some very cool timbres using just one oscillator, so it’s cool to see that you can do that on a single unit with this thing.

#62

Not really sure I understand sorry. What’s the “static offset of the phase output”?

#63

For instance, sine vs cosine are offset by 90 degrees (or pi/2 radians). A sine wave and an inverted sine wave are offset by 180 degrees (or pi radians). Just refers to a new “start point” for the waveform based off of a reference start point.

@smbols is suggesting using a static DC offset into the phase input. Delaying the waveform by a very small amount is the same thing as creating a phase offset relative to the original waveform.

#64

IIRC the phase modulation bus affects the carrier only and there’s separate output for the PM bus. Since both VCO cores can also work standalone you can of course phase-shift the carrier and use that to modulate the modulator, flipping the two somehow. But I haven’t tried that.

You don’t need the offset. The manual phase control let’s you do that.

#65

Yeah, that’s what I’m talking about. But, rather than shift the phase of the carrier and send it to the modulator, send the phase shifted carrier into its own FM input and a lot of interesting timbres start happening with odd octave shifts at certain points. Just curious how the Mindphaser sounds when doing this since it has the phase modulation section built in.

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#66

Oh that’s what you mean! Haven’t heard that yet, sorry. I got to spend a few moments with the module at superbooth, but mostly my knowledge is of theoretical nature deriving from designing the panel. (Should have mentioned that I know!)

#67

I’ve had lovely results with the STO & Dixie II pair, using the dual waveshaper of the Disting mk4, and throwing a varying pair of outputs into an Optomix. Pairing this voice with the gnarly ALM MCO yields some pleasurable timbres.

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#68

I just got my DPO today, and… wow. It’s extremely different from Double Helix or Hertz Donut, both of which felt a lot more predictable. I’d assumed when people said DPO was difficult to tame, it was because they just weren’t used to FM or something… I think I owe them an apology :pensive:

It’s full of gorgeous growly sounds though and I love the thing already. I appreciate that I will have a ton to learn about it in an intuitive/practical sense, despite the overall mechanics being relatively simple. There’s an infinity of sounds to discover in that thing.

I’m glad I have the O’Tool+ right near it…

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#69

It took me literally 2 years to really grok DPO (and I went steady w/ FM in college). Now I’ll never let it go. It’s worth the time.

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#70

I’m wondering if someone here might be able to help me understand conceptually why a complex oscillator traditionally has a wavefolder at the end. On such a complex waveform is it useful to shape the sound (counterintuitively a semi-subtractive thing?) or is it just about adding even more harmonics to the rich FM’ed sound (adding to the additive?). I’m thinking about making a TZ oscillator to pair with mangrove and wondering basically what people think a wavefolder brings to the mix ~ hope this is an ok thread for this question

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#71

The latter, I think. This is imprecise, but I often feel like FM tones (especially linear FM) have growl and body, while a wavefolder can help add buzz.

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#72

Yes, to add harmonics and get a greater range of texture, from string to woodwind. You can sometimes change the distribution of harmonics to even/odd, high/low. So you can thin out the sound or make it softer, or edgier, more burnished or more glassy, depending on saturation characteristics and # of folds and so on.

Here is another explanation from mritenburg

"mritenburg Not all complex oscillators are the same in this regard, but oscillators that work similar to a Buchla 259 generally do this:

  1. Sinewave folder (timbre)
  2. Harmonics manipulation from folded sine to saw (harmonics)
  3. Cross-fade from saw to square (symmetry)

The Verbos Complex Osc and Sputnik Dual Osc both have these features."

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=189207&highlight=

I suggest you try u-he Zebra 2.8. That can do FM synthesis and has a wavefolder module. Really lets you hear the difference with and without in an idealized fashion.

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#73

thanks for the tips and links :slight_smile:

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#74

With a complex oscillator you don’t have to only use it for FM, you can use the LFO range of oscillator one for AM duties as well, or for manipulating the wavefolder. Also the wavefolder has its own sound when folding just the complex oscillators pure waves like triangle and sine, which can sound wonderful.

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#75

I built a pair of Feedback Two59s - so that’s 4 x VCOs and 2 x Shapers. They are fantastic and get very close to that Buchla CO sound. There are lots of vactrols used in the circuit though and it can require a little experimentation, swapping them about to get it right. The two I have do have different timbres from the fold circuit but I kind of like that aspect. I’d say these are definitely worth a go if you want a good CO on a budget and are handy with an iron.

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#76

I’ve been having that same thought myself recently… It’s really affordable for what it is too, I wouldn’t do that with the E352 for instance!

#77

I’ve always been curious about those. How complex is the build?

#78

There are a lot of components and the boards are very tight but the build manual is the best I’ve ever seen. Worth a pop. If you do, don’t forget to socket all the vactrols. You’ll probably need to swap them about.

#79

I am looking at stepping into complex oscillator game. Or at least tasting it somehow.
I currently own 2 Plaits and a Mangrove. And recenly been thinking about replacing Plaits with Instruo Cs-L.
What do you guys think of this?
And also, maybe i can somehow try something similar with what i have already?

#80

You could patch the output of one Plaits to the FM input of the other. Set the modulating Plaits to a plain sine (maybe use the aux out of the FM model), and the carrier Plaits to the waveshaping model. Have them both track the same pitch input. Your FM would be exponential, so it could go deep but not be dynamic without more advanced tricks that probably aren’t worth it in this case.

Plaits really would not be my first choice for this though, and definitely no substitute for a Cs-L if that’s what you wanted.

Mangrove, lovely as it is, does linear FM but since it’s not thru-zero, it’s much more subtle. AM with the Air input works well with it though.

Personally, I’d replace one Plaits with the Cs-L if you have room and keep the other for its variety. Or Hertz Donut mk2 or 3, my favorite complex oscillators :smiley:

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