#81

Thank you, will try this. And will look into Hertz donut.
Definitely not thinking of replicating Cs-L with plaits, just about trying if the whole concept is my thing:)
Don’t have place for plaits and Cs-L unfortunately. Choices:)

#82

14%20PM

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#83

I finally got around to trying out the FM oscillator algorithm on the Disting Mk4 this morning. I didn’t realize before that it does through zero FM, and it sounds really really nice! I’m going to be experimenting with that and my Dixie 2 as a complex oscillator for a while–it’s a surprisingly capable pair for 10hp.

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#84

Okay, I try to steer away from “help me buy stuff” but I’m a bit on the fence. I’ve grown to like the sound and architecture of complex oscillators, and I want dedicated one. I’ve pretty much narrowed my options to DPO and Furthrrrr generator. Verbos oscillator seems a bit barebones, CS-L I’ve ruled out because I dislike such a busy panel and button-y stuff it apparently has for modes. I think I prefer the features on DPO with two fully-featured oscillators, follow-circuit and vactrols, especially the strike-input on the wavefolder. I also like built-in attenuators/verters, but that seems to be the case with Furthrrr too. But the thing is, from demos I think I prefer the sound of the Furthrrrr. Apart from feature differences Make Noise attracts me as the setup will be mostly MN and Mannequins, with some single additions from other manufacturers. Would the follow-circuit be as simple to patch as splitting note-cv and patching it to the modulator through slew limiter? From people who have experience with said modules and/or have better understanding of the subject, apart from sound which is very personal and subjective, what would I miss if I went with DPO versus Furthrrrr, and vice versa?

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#85

Hi Quru, I actually don’t have a dedicated complex osc. I did take delivery of a Joranalogue Generate 3 and am combining it with some LPGs, Cold Mac, Mangrove and a Instruo wave folder to get somewhere close. One thing with this setup is there is no onboard attenuverters. I have consciously built this to be as modular as possible but this has come at the cost of $$ and hp.

It seems like the follow circuit of the DPO is a slew limiter and can be patched easily.

Based on my subjective tastes I like the Furthrrr and was going to buy one before the Generate 3 came out. A big part of that decision was the potential TZFM on the furthrrr and the generate 3 to allow for v/8 tracking with wild FM.

This is all just my personal taste, whichever you decide on let me know. I’d love to hear what you do with it.

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#86

My inclination would be to choose the one with the sound you like more. If it turns out you don’t love working with it after a while, trade it for another… but don’t make the mistake I did and trade it for something theoretically better if you do love it.

Of all the complex oscillators I’ve tried, DPO was not one of my favorites… but I respect it a lot, and other people have made very compelling music with it. The ones I’ve enjoyed the most myself have been Hertz Donut mk2 and Double Helix. (If only the latter didn’t make such demands on the -12V rail I’d be tempted to grab them both again.)

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#87

Makes sense and that’s what I’m probably leaning to more heavily. I dig the sound of DPO too, but at least if I go with something I think sounds better it leaves out a lot of the “but what if”, and lot of feature and architecture stuff comes to life when actually using the module, whichever it is. Same with sound, though.

For some reason I had skipped the Double Helix entirely, I don’t have that good of an impression about Pittsburgh Modular stuff. The panel doesn’t look that enticing, but I have to check it out. Hertz Donut interests me a lot, but it’s quite hard to find demos of it that please me. I feel like the sound is there and the range is huge, but overall Harvestman/Industrial Music Electronics stuff seems to be favoured for hard hitting, noisy and dissonant sounds which is cool but not my cup of tea in that extent. Same with Noise Engineering oscillators and voices, they are super cool and can sound great, but for my taste too big of a slice of the range is in the noisy/harsh/hard area. Also, I’ve played with couple of Harvestman modules and the knobs feel just terrible. Maybe they are better on the newer ones? For a larger system I would probably get one, though.

#88

Pittsburgh tends to make what I think of as lot very “high quality” or precise modules, but ones that are full of character. Double Helix has some odd quirks and wouldn’t be everyone’s cup of tea – it doesn’t do linear FM at all, for instance, nor sync – but I like how the wavefolder and built-in LPG interact with it. The mod bus on it is pretty neat too.

I know Harvestman has a reputation for noisiness and harshness, but I get some nice results from both Hertz Donut and Kermit. I think HD mk2 pairs well with a more traditional wavefolder than its built-in “discontinuity” circuit generally, though, which does have a bit too spiky and “digital” of an edge for me.

#89

I’ve had both and ended up keeping the DPO.

I never really liked the way the tuning knobs worked on the FG, they are only fine tune knobs. So for coarse tuning you had to spin them quite a bit. Also, the modulator oscillator is ONLY internally routed to the furrtthrrr outputs on the second oscillator, not the the other outputs.

These are small nitpicks overall, it’s a really nice module. The sound is what matters most, if you like the FG, go for it.

The DPO sounded better to me, and it was always intuitive and fast to use. The Strike input is a nice feature. Its follow circuit can indeed be duplicated with a mult and a slew limiter.

A second option is that you can get the DPO and then pair it later with a Godspeed from Endorphines, which is like a single side of the Furthrr. (I paired my DPO with a Make Noise STO. Complex oscillators always benefit from having a lil’ buddy.)

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#90

I had a difficult time getting the tracking calibrated on my Furthrrrr, but loved the character. Anyone else have tracking issues with the FG?

#91

If anyone out there needs help with the basics of complex oscillators, I can vouch for this AskVideo course on the DPO. Perfect if you have a DPO, of course, but most of the concepts will be applicable to any complex oscillator.

(FWIW, the course essentially sold me on a DPO. I believe complex sound shouldn’t necessarily mean complex controls, and the DPO is exceptionally laid out and easy to use after some explanation is given. Yet can be explored for years without feeling like you’ve exhausted its possibilities. An ideal “baby’s first complex osc”, in any case, though after mastering it I may not want to move to anything else)

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#92

I was in this boat a few months ago, I got the CS-L. I would seriously think twice about ruling it out. It sounds amazing. I was hesitant about the design and aesthetic too and I don’t even think twice about that anymore. I haven’t even had the need to use any button combos yet, not something you really need to use IMO.

Here’s a few things that make it stand above the rest in my opinion:

  1. Extremely stable tuning
  2. different cores for each half, the triangle core and the saw core each have their own personality
  3. built in ring modulator with half and full rectification
  4. function to allow the each half to track each other, so for example if you have one vco tuned a fifth above the other you can maintain the relationship with one v/o input as you feed it note info, great for fm
  5. Sub oscillator and two different types of square/pulse waves

I was trying to decide between this and the DPO and the demos of the DPO always led me to believe that it sounded a little too metallic, and Ive owned a 0-Coast and an STO and I wasn’t a fan of the sound of their wave shapers, too brittle sounding.

I definitely wouldn’t write off the CS-L. Just my opinion.

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#93

The STO is way different, the 0-Coast always sounded closer to the DPO. If I ever got my hands on a 0-Coast (someone loan me one!) I was going to do a video of all three wavefolders / shapers as a comparison.

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#94

Yeah I didn’t like either, lol. So the STO has a waveshaper, sin to saw. On the 0-Coast, are either of the Overtone or Multiply circuits the same as the Fold on the DPO? If so, I wouldn’t have liked the DPO’s Fold circuit. Having not tried the DPO in person I went with the CS-L because of the strong hunch that I wouldn’t like to the sound of the DPO based on prior experience.

As for the waveshaping comparison to the STO, I had a Sputnik Oscillator that had a waveshaper and it sounded much better to my ears, less brittle.

#95

I didn’t care for the folder on the 0-Coast – I actually preferred taking its triangle and saturating it a bit more, or shaping the sound by using the square out to trigger the function generator instead.

I think the one on DPO is a bit different in character (as well as having another dimension of control) and sounded a little better to me. Not necessarily one of my favorites, but not bad.

#96

I was pretty much set with Furthrrrr Generator, but a good deal on used DPO came up so that’s what I’m going to get. I should get it today. Excited!

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#97

I wouldn’t consider any of the analog complex oscillators or STO or 0-Coast to be brittle sounding, just buzzier or glassier or with different low and low-mid content and band-limited or not characteristics.

I consider the DPO kind of gray sounding in a good way with buzziness and rubbery bass, lots of low bass too. Less fat than the STO, which has a different variable shape than DPO, and the 0-Coast is a bit more lithe. DPO has vactrols all over inputs.

Whereas the Verbos has a lot of low mids, saturated rolled off highs and all sweet spot in the wavefolder, and vactrol slew in the mod bus. It sounds much dustier than the DPO, particularly the earthy AM.

The Furthrrrr has a lot more range on wavefolder, and is tighter than the Verbos, quite a bit of low mid content but shelves lower than the Verbos and can do molten glassier and hollow sounds but is never harsh really, and highs are somewhat rolled off.

The Cs-L I think is the most hifi, not very bandlimited and with a full spectrum ton of midrange content.

I agree with Starthief, go for sound primarily. Functionality is less important, more a convenience thing than a hurdle jump. Verbos it’s good to have another sine oscillator nearby for bipolar and linear FM, though. I usually use a Dixie for this.

Also pretty much agree with mritenburg’s assessment here, that the Furthrrrr wavefolder at least sounds like 259’s whereas Verbos in total sounds very much like 208. Albeit Verbos is exponential FM bus and unipolar mod osc.

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2998844#p2998844

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#98

The 0-Coast wavefolder is more like DPO’s. Not sine to edgy triangle like STO. I would guess there is no vactrol on inputs though like with DPO. Obviously there are other sound differences too.

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#99

So in listening to these scope demos, I know these aren’t a full A/B comparison because different people are doing these, but I think the DPO fold circuit sounds pretty great actually. The 0-Coast sounds a little thinner and more nasally and gnarly like I remember it. I think in general anything with a spike in the waveform are sounds I was associating with ‘harsh’ , but this is my opinion.
I actually wish I would have heard this before buying the CS-L because you can find DPO’s cheaper and easier on Reverb used. Lol. I’m happy with the CS-L though.

As for the assessment of the CS-L being ‘hi-fi’, I agree. I think that’s what I really dig about it. I either wanted to go that route or Verbos, which seems to be the opposite tonally, however the CS-L popped up used for a good price and I grabbed it.

For what its worth, I’ve only used single oscillators in combination with wavefolders before getting the CS-L. I had a Sputnik, a Pittsburgh Primary, an STO, a Bubblesound VCOb and a Noise Reap Bermuda, and when I plugged in the CS-L for the first time it was that quintessential trope of ‘blanket was being pulled from over my ears’ moment. The upper mid harmonics on the CS-L are so beautiful, even just the raw waveforms sounded much better to my ears than any of the afformentioned oscillators. I’m a guitar player as well, and to any of you guitar players out there, the CS-L sounds akin to an AC-30, which also has a bevy of upper mid-range harmonics, which I’m a huge fan of. The Verbos is like a 50’s Fender Tweed, in my head at least. lol. The DPO is something like a Silverface Fender, very pleasing and woody in the mellower settings but gets a little gnarly when pushed.

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#100

Good analogy!

I don’t own a DPO, but of course it’s awesome. I will buy one eventually, must be honest with myself.
Sometimes people want latest flavor of the month so they say the new thing is the best but more flavors is better. Just like with amps, as you say.

I agree, I think I would get a Cs-L if I were doing soundtrack work. It sounds and feels evolved.

Frankly I like all the complex oscillator designs in Euro, including all three Hertz Donuts. Wish I had them all.

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