#22

Wow thnx for the tips! I’ll read her paper tomorrow. I’ve been following her work and interviews for a while now but I wasn’t aware that her paper was available online! She’s a big inspiration. I’m struggling too with changing patches in my live performances so any tips are welcome. I’ve thought of the matrix mixer as a solution but things get really complex really fast with 4x4 matrix mixers. I was looking at the 4ms matrix mixer for a while, but I wasn’t aware the NLC have also one! I’m not a builder though and can’t find anything available in EU.

#23

Wow! Reading this I got to the patch diagram and (after looking up and marveling at the arbitrary function generator) realized I sort of had all these parts in my little system so why not try it out. I never would have imagined following someone else’s patch diagram would be so fruitful—especially from a completely different modular format and with certain things completely unavailable to me (ASG for example). I approximated Sequencer+AFG+EG using Teletype and Just Friends. Patched 3 sound sources + white noise into the matrix mixer, and then all 3 outs into the three individual inputs of Three Sisters, and then the last out through a LPG into the All input. My sound sources were a Mangrove Formant, Grandpa Sampler, and something through phonogene (at first I was using Mangrove Square out, sort of chorusing it through phonogene so I had a related bass and lead line between the Formant and Square paths, then I had my Shnth playing through it to approximate Ciani’s “keyboard” control of sound sources, which was fun too).

I have a few takeaways from this. The main one relevant to this thread is that I set up two teletype scenes—one I built up with at the beginning with the patch, and the second one I copied from the first and tried to see how different I could make it. Once I had the second one going I tried transitioning back to the first (covering the Teletype scene change with a bit of looping W/ which I had in the audio path of the Shnth before the MM). Because there was no unpatching/repatching it was the smoothest and most drastic “song transition” I’ve ever been able to pull off on the modular. (Note: I had to manually switch samples on the Grandpa, and my Shnth tuning didn’t match the first patch, but if I was preparing songs these would both be fairly simple changes—each require only a button press to switch states/samples—only slightly more complicated than hard patched oscillators). Obviously I’m using different tools than Ciani, but the act of fixing pathways in this particular way is something that I’ve been looking for a good way of doing, unsuccessfully, and her diagram is unlocking part of the answer I’ve been looking for… 4 matrix outs into 3 sisters’ ins… is the mixer/eq/magic sauce of the gods. I don’t often leave things patched, but I’ll be leaving this patched for a minute to experiment.

Thank you so much for sharing this :slight_smile:

7 Likes
Teletype concepts and thoughts
#24

Doepfer A-138m should be easy to find at a good price in EU.

2 Likes
#25

When reading interviews with Ciani, Subotnick, and Schrader, I’ve always found it incredible that they did so much with so little (compared to the embarrassment of riches we have in terms of module selection and ability) and that their approach to patches was much more static.

Here’s some notes from Barry Schrader that I’ve always found interesting. He had the same basic patch set up for years which yielded multiple albums. (Keep scrolling down, it’s formatted weird and there is more info after a large space.)
https://www.innova.mu/sites/default/files/liner-notes/629.htm

11 Likes
#26

really loved this in depth breakdown of the way she uses the marf compositionally.

20 Likes
#27

so nice - 13:40 sounds like some dorian awake jams! would love to see an extended verbos multistage or something similar to get some of the more in depth functions of the marf in eurorack

#28

I send each module I use into a separate input on my sound card and assign each instrument its own track in logic x, then hit record and start playing. I normally stop after 15 mins then edit it up and mix it out in logic

#29

Super interesting!

Where are the pitches/sequences coming from? From the module with the segment displays in the bottom left? And does the MARF then partially control them somehow?
And what about the third sequence around 13:45? Is that a (random?) selection of pitches from one of the two sequences that are running?

#30

Hey! first post here.

Cool topic.

I have a 0-Coast and an 104 HP x 6U Eurorack. I use the synths to experiment and try to find the hidden things that the circuits can provide. It was build under the concept of functional promiscuity. So for me it’s a playground for ideas and patching techniques.
From this experiments I start developing musical ideas.
Last year I started experimenting under the concept of making a patch versatile enough to be able to perform 20-25 minutes with it. I started with an idea and over the course of days or weeks I developed it, making it more complex, practicing the performance, mixing it on the modular, etc. then I recorded using my stereo output module into ableton live as a tape recorded. This ended up as my debut album.

I try make full use of the resources, for example using two hex VCAs as a stereo mixer, processing telHarmonic H an P outputs as well as Ring Even and Odd outputs separately and planing them, etc.

Depending on how I feel I use Marbles, Game System or the KB-1 for pitch, and gates.

Just recently I started to experiment sending MIDI to the 0-Coast, which is interesting but not my cup of tea.

So, to end up, I like to have limitations but also flexibility to compose, experiment, play and have fun overall.

3 Likes
#31

Interesting discussion going on… I basically split the process of modular composition into three phases:

1.) Building the Instrument - most often I start a project by patching a playable instrument, defined by up to 208hp of modules, couple of tactile inputs (grid or keys or sensors…) and a selection of effect pedals. I then patch all main connections and don‘t change this until I finish the project.

2.) Playing the Instrument - once patched, I try to keep the structure of the main patch and create variations by changing values and playing notes. The range of diversity one can achieve without repatching a single cord is amazing and restricting the level of access to the patch helps me in being consistent throughout a project.

3.) Recording - I have a Zoom running whenever I play on the modular, and I maintain a single ‚instrument’ patch for weeks. I then go further by processing the recordings on tape or building tracks in Ableton

8 Likes
#32

I do this too! It’s a great mental challenge because it prompts some planning and helps breed creativity through restrictions.

1 Like
#33

This is posted in the hope that it is somewhat interesting to someone🤔

In a modular context my music is rather conventional in that I work with harmony, melody, song-like structures and most of the time has (something resembling) kick, snare, hihat and bass.

I normally start out with a general feeling I want to achieve or a rhythmic or harmonic idea.

First I patch the most important elements from the initial idea, both sound and on the teletype. When I have something that I feel captures what I intended, I work out a form, with contrasting or supporting parts. Then I work out melody, either played by hand into hermod or a generative idea on the teletype, or both.

Then I play the thing through a couple of times, looking for places to take the patch. Often I add more hands on control, more generative and dependencies on teletype and kill a few darlings here.

Finally I multi track the patch in one pass with cameras rolling, sometimes it needs a few takes before it works, sometimes the first take is enough. Then mix (no or minimal fixes), edit the video and put it in queue to go public on youtube.

5 Likes
#34

Then I play the thing through a couple of times, looking for places to take the patch.

This is something I know I’m timid about, for fear of losing the sweet spot I originally had in my patch. Any strategies for finding your way back to home base, or to a few different waypoints?

I’ve approached it more by multitracking smaller and more “recallable” variations, and once I know I’m happy with what I’ve captured I’ll do a pass where I’ll explore a lot more wildly but this usually brings the patch to a place I can’t come back from.

Also cool to know that your performances are one-takes. Love what you create!

2 Likes
#35

I definitely feel this quite a bit. Both Cold Mac and ADDAC306 (transition controller) can help achieve changes without losing sweet spots. If you have neither and aren’t looking to add a module, you could also use an unpatched attenuator as a ‘prosthetic knob’ without fear of losing your patch.

5 Likes
#36

When I realized how much more alive everything became when I wasn’t afraid to touch it, it was a bit easier.

Also, the 301 is doing ‘signature sounds’, which means it’s easier to apply a more casual approach to the rest of the system.

That said, I too have a lot to learn here, I fall in the same trap as well…

Thanks so much, highly appreciated! Thanks for listening!

And congrats on the wonderful news😀

2 Likes
#37

This is a huge issue with modular indeed! The solution that I found that works for me is recording the basic sound of a patch into a sampler and use that as a basis where i can always land back on.

#38

These past 3 years composing on modular has been a baptism of fire, that’s for sure. As I am partial to ambient / generative music, I was happily impressed with the improvisation my system allowed me, but as I am a sucker for melody and song structure too I felt duly constrained by its limitations - or rather anxious with the necessity to purchase a ton of additional modules to achieve what would be otherwise quite basic tasks (this isn’t a complaint, I fully enjoy acquiring the building blocks). I must say though, this has all changed when I bought the ACL Sinfonion. I can’t express how much it has opened up my system in terms of harmony, scales, modes and composition. I was almost there with Harmonaig, but the Sinfonion on another level entirely and has my 100% endorsement for anyone on the fence about getting one (provided you have 7 or 8 voices to make it sing)

#39

Have you ever made a video or considered making a video documenting this process? Would be very interesting to watch and learn.

#40

This depends on your system but if you have parameters that use switches or stepped controls then it could be a good place to start to explore possibilities without too much risk of loosing it.

#41

There are multiple ways I work. In the beginning I just started a new patch every day. Started with unpatching everything and then just build my patchwhile listening. That learned me a lot about possibilities and things that I needed.
When I really compose I start a patch that is close to what I have in my head and then work from there. Most times I have my DAW record the whole thing. I use an ADAT link to my DAW. Most times when I get somewhere I do multiple takes. Make slight variations.Then a sort of progress builds in my head, like I want to go from this sound via that sound towards that sound.
Recently I have been studying my Hordijk again because I want to perform with it. Have a patch that has been growing and changing. The whole idea is to have 4 signal paths to the dual fader which I can use as mixer ánd a vca. I build up, make notes (like signal path schematics) and then tear it down and build up again.

4 Likes