Computer modular programs: inside DAW vs outside DAW

[unicity]

Sure, I can post something a bit later hopefully.

As for the complexity, I find it much more comfortable when I limit how many modules I have in any given patch. I enforce this by setting my zoom level to 164%…on my 27" display this limits me to two rows/6u and what looks like 104-ish HP. It’s also easier on my aging eyes.

It’s so very tempting to right-click and go searching through the enormous module library to try and find fun new shiny things, but I definitely get more stuff done when I restrict how many modules I have on screen and then focus on really exploring what fits in that limited space.

[spacelordmother]

Easy as that! Thank you thank you!

[ht73]

I don’t mean to suggest arrangement is impossible in VCV. I just mean you can’t use it to place audio clips on a horizontal timeline, and that’s what most people think of when you say “DAW”.

I would consider that a strength actually.

Which is not to say linear development is ‘bad’, just that there’s no reason it can’t be done in a fully modular setup. Maybe we just don’t have the right modules.

How much of this is best done ‘live’, and how much aided by other modules and pre-programmed content is a question that has yet to be settled. Perhaps the surface has not really been scratched.

It does surface the question as to the best arrangement of event schedulers, mutes, and other automation controls. How much of this can be collected into a single ‘arranger module’ and what would the interface be? Certainly the idea of a ‘module’ can and should go far beyond just something with jacks and knobs. Or how much of this can be broken down into smaller and simpler modules? Then, what else is possible for those who wish to use these arranger components in a more generative fashion? How also can such thinking and development influence hardware design for those who prefer to stay in that world?

[jasonw22]

I feel horizontal arrangement of audio clips on a timeline is pretty orthogonal to the modular mindset.

I think it’s OK to have different mindsets (and toolsets) at different times for different reasons.

My workflow (when using modular systems) is: record a bunch of audio and either call it “done”, or, occasionally, bring the audio into a timeline view for a little cut/paste/edit. I typically don’t enjoy timeline editing (feels like using excel to make music) but there are times when it’s easier than the alternatives (if I keep it to the bare minimum).

[unicity]

Here’s a quick example I just put together on my lunch hour. MIDI out from VCV Rack to an instance of Operator in Ableton Live. It looks like this:

Pitches from the NoteSeq16 are sent directly to Operator in Ableton Live. The gates are being split apart and delayed independently before being merged back together. The timing for each of the delays applied to the gates is being modulated by an LFO. The first and fourth gates are being subjected to probability by the Bernouli gate. The ADDR-SEQ is sending velocities to Operator (mapped to the volume of the modulator in the FM algo).

Sounds like this so far:

If I continue with this tonight, the first thing I’d do would be to tighten up the timing difference of the gate delays. But hey, I gotta get back to work.

Oh also, this all runs smoothly on my 2010 (!) Macbook Pro. Core 2 Duo haha. I’m pretty sure if I tried to put some DSP stuff in VCV Rack everything would blow up.

[kasselvania]

Wow… This is wonderful. This is real inspiration for me to get in to this. Modular’s are just tough to get in to a learn. VCV, having very little limitations get even MORE difficult. But I want to experiment with recreating what you’ve got here and just pay attention to the process. I really enjoy the result.

I have also downloaded miRack on my iPad. Basically just a portable version of VCV rack. Would be worth porting the midi through to some of the great softsynths on my ipad, or even to garage band… I’ve had a thing for portable electronic music making that allows me to get away from my desk, hence the OPZ, iPad and Norns being my main forms of music making.

Might, when I actually get a chance to sit at my computer/iPad and try this stuff, send you a question or two, if thats cool. You’ve had beautiful results and I’d love to continue picking your brain.

[pfig]

I suspected I was being lazy by not elaborating, sorry about that
In any case, that’s the setup I use to move parts, and it works a treat.

[pfig]

Yep, I found it impossible to keep to the Fundamental set of modules when I started out, which probably meant it took me a lot longer to know what was going on in some of the modules I was using

As always, there are a bunch of lovely people on YouTube publishing beginner’s guides regularly: Omri Cohen, Modular Curiosity, Federico Soler Fernández, just off the top of my head.

[kasselvania]

There are certainly some great looking tutorials out there. I appreciate the names and will look at what they’ve put together. Sometimes I find it easier to play with stuff that others have built, rebuilding it to get a since off what does what. Often times tutorials just give you the basics but can be a bit hard to pin down what kinds of music can be made that way.

I’m excited and motivated to dig further in to it. This falls under the same interests as orca in helping me generate melodies and melodic rhythms since these are often times the weakest parts of my music flow at the moment. All really great tools for building something one might not come up with on their own!

[jasonw22]

When I patch in VCV, I do it with Omri Cohen’s voice in my head. I suspect this condition may be permanent.

[droptableuser]

very nice…

[RMBLRX]

For a while, the only software I would use as a synthesizer was VCV Rack. I’ve expanded my horizons a bit since Bitwig came out with the Grid in 3.0, but generally I’ve used Bitwig for recording, mixing, and mastering (rather than arrangement or performance). I haven’t used Bitwig with VCV for a little while now, but generally I use them together, which is handy since I tend to rely on the DAW for multitracking as well as hosting and capturing MIDI and routing CV between hardware (through MIDI as well as CV via the ES-8) and VCV or other pieces of standalone software (often through loopMIDI) and then recording that as well. As far as I’m concerned, it’s all fair game, but a proper DAW is probably good to have in the middle of everything in order to capture as much information as possible, but it can be fun and interesting just to fire up VCV on its own in order to better approximate actual modular synthesis.

By the way, Bridge in VCV does still work and, according to the documentation, should stick around until 2.0 when a VST version of VCV is supposed to be released (albeit without support, so I suppose it could hypothetically run into problems before then).

[unicity]

Ok, spent today’s lunch hour tightening up what I had posted yesterday. Removed the LFO’s modulating the trigger delay times and replaced them with two preset voltages, a sequential switch, and a shift register. Less wind chimey, more intentional.

Fiddled with Operator a bit too. Sounds like this now:

[kasselvania]

Okay, so, as a first exploration in to some of what VCV Rack has to offer, I took your idea, doubled it, then paired it with the Meadow Physics monome module. The MIDI going out went to Live which was running a grand piano Kontakt instrument. I made one sequencer higher than the other to approximate right and left hand. Meadow Physics had the 1st row trigger a random right hand (higher register) jump on the sequencer and the second row was the left hand (lower register) went back and forth.

Each time MeadowPhysics triggered, it would trigger the next step of the sequencer. Forgive me if my explanation is poor. I’m exhausted.

But holy heck has this been an awesome learning experience and boy am I inspired as heck from this first attempt at working with modular systems like this!

Here is a screen grab of the general idea and the track itself:

[unicity]

Awesome! I sure do love Meadowphysics. I`ll repeat it one more time - the VCV Rack ports of those monome modules made it crystal clear that I need a grid in my life sooner than later. Thank you so much @dewb !

A little more back on topic - it occurred to me that in this use case (generating MIDI only), I probably will use VCV Rack as a plugin in Ableton Live when the VST version becomes available, especially if the contents of the VCV patch can be exposed to Live’s automation somehow.

[nkozi]

Amazing addition to a wonderful idea! The piano sound you chose was lovely as well. I’ve been stuck deeply into Bitwig/The Grid for a few months now, but this patch made me redownload VCV. I’ll be cloning this to get to the bones of how it works, and then see if I can’t work out a way to use it in Bitwig’s environment. If not, then I suppose VCV is getting added back to my 2-DAW workflow.

As far as staying perfectly on-topic and reviving an old thread goes: Although it does carry the expense of a full DAW, I really can’t speak highly enough of Bitwig’s workflow for virtual modular. As someone still very new to Eurorack/modular environments in general, the opportunity to attempt to recreate modules (or even just functions of modules) has really helped me to understand my needs and wants out of a system. I’m sure other people have seen comparisons to Max and Reaktor before, and while my experience with those two environments is piecemeal (reverse engineered one very expensive M4L device to see how it used the API to get its job done), I think that it’s strength is the learning curve and immediate utility of it. Kinda makes the question-asking/answer-seeking process of patching towards a certain goal pretty tangible!

[kasselvania]

Thanks so much! This was one of my first VCV patches that I felt accomplished something that I would listen to. In essence, I use the sequencer to send out a polyphony chord, then split those in to separate pathways. Each of those get pushed through delays/logic gates to split them up, creating an offset between when each note plays. I then combined them back together in to a single polyphony signal to be used in Ableton.

I can probably pop this back open and let you know if there’s any additions to that.

As you can see a little further up, the general concept was provided to me by @unicity who was gracious enough to share some VCV knowledge and this initial patch!

Ps, I’ve been curious about bitwig and would love to pick your brain sometime.

[nkozi]

I did see! Both of you made some really wonderful devices here - I’m attempting that same patch right now and have everything working as intended thus far - Just gotta make something musical on a sequencer I’m not used to

Feel free to DM me (or ask here) Anything about Bitwig! I’m by no means an expert, but I do try to read all the documentation of tools I use, or at least know where to look for info.

Edit: Took the patch, figured out how to get it to sing, and then expanded on it just a lil’. Honestly don’t know why I discounted VCV - This was amazingly fun and engaging, and I think I need an Ansible+Grid, given how amazing Meadowphysics was for performing this patch. Thanks to @unicity and you both!

[ground_state]

EDIT: FWIW, I’m happy to share my .als, .vcv, and .oas files - though, given that they’ll be configured for my system’s devices, I don’t know how much use they’ll be…

tldr; Replace the (deprecated) VCV Bridge

tl;read a little: Control VCV using Live’s transport and clock (via CV!), and record all audio outs from VCV into separate track in Live, with super low-latency.

Just throwing this out there as I actually followed along and got it working (I can vouch that none of the required tools are malware).

It’s fiddly and technical to set up, and you will have to pause frequently >_<, but the end result is pretty nice

He has a another, more recent video where he demos recording CV out of VCV as Live Automation, and sending Live MIDI/CC/Automation into VCV as CV - I haven’t dared to brave that one yet, as it seems quite complex to set up.

[encephalitislethargi]

just wanted to say that i learned everything about synthesis and modular from Omri Cohen’ tutorials and learning how to use the modules together in vcv rack. i think it’s an incredible tool for people who don’t want to take the time to grasp the esoteric coding-based language of max/pd/reaktor and have a graphical easy intuitive interpretation of what you are linking together and exactly what happens when you connect one source to another. you can see and hear exactly what is controlling what. it’s really great for learning to understand how a daw works or how a hardware synth works. and its much more accessible than softube modular and way better than the alternatives like cherry audio or whatever. the mutable clones alone are great but the modules that developers have made specifically for vcv are really mind blowing. specifically pyer clyd, nyshti and geodesics