im trying to decide what order to get a norns, an atari st, and building a new linux desktop machine ;-; too many computer

I think it’s good when drummers practice to a metronome, but in my experience tracking without one always sounds better if the the drummer can manage and budget allows many takes.

Part of the drummer’s job is to increase the excitement through tempo manipulation, and the feel of each individual take. So even if you map a metronome to a good live take, you won’t recapture the feel.

Just listen to Charlie Watts, for example. Or similarly some conductors too - Wilhelm Furtwängler most famously - have a loose beat, and each performance is unique, some working where energy and momentum makes sense, some not. But better to have some really great ones than all merely acceptable.

For that matter, I much prefer music where most of the tracking, certainly the rhythm section, is live ensemble in a room.

These days with Logic’s tempo mapping, there are probably some experiments to do at least as far as overdubs on a live core. Particularly with electronic instruments no longer requiring purely click tracked drums.

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As someone with 18U of racked modules, I have similar pariah feelings when reading posts insisting on self-imposed size limitations.

While this is entirely valid if it’s your approach, it’s not the only way to achieve creative parameters.

My system has never induced choice paralysis.

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just a friendly reminder that computers can have knobs if you want them to

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Hard to say.

This was a home studio, which didn’t afford us that kind of space, but which did allow us endless time to go wild with the arrangements. Giving that up would have resulted in a very different album.

(I guess the usual compromise is “track drums, bass and guitar together, then everything else separately”, and I’m very much in the “everything else” column, so it’s hard for me to conceptualize. From my perspective, nothing changes.)

Again, though, I don’t know if “quantize” is the right word for what he was doing. That feels like an automated process. This was more of a “letting your ear guide what needs adjusting” kind of process.

“Both” is also a good option, though more expensive.

I think you can create better sounding instruments, faster, with analog hardware. For certain kinds of sounds, anyway.

…but something like pure data (or max or lua or even html) is often the best way to control that hardware.

(shoutout to the Expert Sleepers ES-8, yo)


(I would definitely recommend that anyone considering modular hardware in particular spend a week learning VCV Rack, though. It’s probably the best way to figure out what you’re actually looking for before you spend money on things that you’re not.)

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This is so kick ass! YA MAN!

Hardware rules. Software serves.

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these are indeed great.

i play in a trio (Hollow Bone: check our first vid for a teaser of the upcoming album :wink: ). Drums and percussions, guitar and me on the eurorack rig.
we do slow hypnotic stuff, the songs are on the long side (about 8-10 minutes).
in november we recorded our first album, in january we mixed it and now we need to master it and release it.
we wanted to keep the record as genuine as possible, production-wise. we chose a studio that’s oriented to this approach. it has a large recording room with a very nice ambience (which of course was recorded), the mixing room revolves around a 24 track analog tape machine hooked up to protools (so it records both to tape and to digital BUT post tape). the outboard tends to be on the vintage side, as the microphones, but not in a dogmatic way.
we recorded all tracks alltogether. we need to play together to keep the timing and feeling of what we do.only one track was too problematic to do in one single take and we split it in three blocks, but always recording altogether.
we did very few overdubs where we felt they were needed.
in the mixing session some editing was made but only on very specific points which needed a bit of correction.
we used almost only analog equipment for the mix but, again, not in a dogmatic way. we used some plugins too.
the mixes came out extremely dynamic and organic. of course there are some difficulties, some of them will be resolved in the mastering session, but overall we are very happy with the result.
all this to say that the process really depends on what you play, on what is your vision about your music, what in a way “feels right” for the job.
this also reflects my personal attitude towards my solo music and my rig. i slowly got rid of almost everything non-eurorack (except the big sky for reverbs and i use microphones and piezos and objects) only because i slowly realized that was perfect for what i was aiming at in my music.
in 18 years i switched many setups, software, hardware, hybrid, mpc’s, maschine, ableton live, synths, grooveboxes, on the neverending search for my personal holy grail.
the constant was that i usually want my live setup to translate almost perfectly my studio setup (meaning: i usually don’t want a larger setup in studio than what i can bring on stage).
when i started with eurorack my setup was centered around an mpc 2500 with jjos, a virus ti and a machinedrum.
then slowly the eurorack grew as my knowledge of it grew.
when i acquired the er-301 i decided it, with the grid\ansible combo, could totally rreplace the octatrack i was using.
i have to point out that the mixer (an analog one because i love the simple freedom it gives, no digital clipping, feedback loops allowed, etc…) is central to the way i work. i could never work with a small eurorack mixer. i need multiple aux sends for the fx’s, mic preamps…
but all of this is absolutely personal. as i already said in a previous post on this thread, for me is all about the experience, how i can relate with my instruments.
it always was, also when i had computer based setups, i practiced a lot to feel comfortable on stage.
now i’m really in love with the euro workflow even if it has its difficulties (mainly polyphony) mostly because the experience is deep and satisfactory from all points of view. now there’s no difference between my work on stage and in studio. only that the recorded material gets edited a bit (but in a very minimalistic way) before being released.

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I’ve been working almost entirely within the iOS environment recently, which I’ve found liberating and inspiring in equal measures. The ease of recording sounds through the mic has added an immediacy to things - if I have the idea to record a noise, I just do it there and then, for example. Plus the range of innovative apps have given me different things to focus on and new ways of working.

I was looking at DAWs on iOS but gradually came to the realisation that I don’t actually want to do that within that environment. Creating and doing post-production on the same tool isn’t necessary and I have a desktop PC with a fantastic DAW on it which I know inside and out. In the last few days I’ve been mixing down unreleased projects and, free from the feel of wanting to tweak things because my creative environment is the same as my mixing environment, I’ve been able to embrace the creativity of the mixing process as an entity of its own. It has been fantastic, I have to say!

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Do you mean you just use the built-in mic?

My experience has been that the built-in mic is pretty low quality… I’d be really interested in hearing some of your recordings …

Edit- also curious what iOS apps and DAW you’re using… and how are you getting the tracks from iOS to DAW?

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You might want to check thsi thread here initiated by @petesasqwax, which is precisely about that: Your iOS arsenal

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No, I’ve been using a mixture of 30 pin mics (the Tascam iM2 and Fostex AR 4i) with my older devices and the iTrack Pocket with my lightning units. The internal mic isn’t bad though in terms of collecting sounds to use as the basis for percussive layer etc. Once you run them through effects they become something else entirely.

And yes - thanks @papernoise - please do check the thread :slight_smile:

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nice, and here’s some love for the built in mic for vocals (iPhone version)


track’s been through the monolase(8bit) so…
also, theiPhone is a computer
(with a phone app and cell tower antenna)
inspired by the iOS Arsenal thread, nice work @petesasqwax

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Yes! Beautiful! And yes, I do love the irony of ditching a computer in favour of… a host of computers (ranging from iPhone 4 to iPad Pro and taking in a 4s, an iPad 3rd gen and an iPhone 6 along the way) - before feeding back into a computer to mix it all down! As you can see, I’ve thoroughly committed to my post-computer setup :wink:

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So, this caught my eye recently:

While I’ve been eager for such a thing for a good while now, I hadn’t really considered it in terms of more audio-specific applications until now. While this is a bit overpriced for how it’s spec’d, the form-factor is quite compelling, as it’s close enough to laptop size to be decently portable while also lacking a powerbrick; more important are the PCIe slots, with which one could forgo the video card and have two slots for internal audio interface cards (I believe, assuming that x16 GPU slot will work, apart from that x4 slot which almost certainly should), or else one slot and two panels, which seems more common. Plus, since that NUC9 module has two thunderbolt3 ports (which I understand to be as fast as PCIe), there’s always the possibility of expansion using external PCIe chassis (particularly if one were to install a video card later on).

For my part, I’m thinking RME’s HDSPe RayDAT would be ideal on the higher end for maximizing the potential for interfacing with hardware (for the purpose, of course, of forgoing USB), particularly on the ADAT side of Expert Sleepers’ eurorack wares, though the two MIDI I/Os are a major plus, not to mention AES/EBU (which seems very useful, though I know little about it). But on the more affordable and less complicated side of things (i.e., just getting stereo into or out of the box), I imagine the Soundblaster AE-9 would work well. Then I suppose Lynx interfaces would fill out the middle quite well, but I’ll wager there are a plethora of aftermarket sound cards of every stripe that wouldn’t work terribly either (probably mostly aftermarket, considering these cards are a dying breed, though I fear there’s probably not much in PCIe, as opposed to PCI).

Probably one of the main downsides is the need for a monitor and keyboard and such, apart from the computer itself. There is the option of using something like a dumb laptop, but in the remote possibility that I ever go the route of acquiring such a machine as the Ghost Canyon, I would use my Planck Light and, preferably, some sort of portable multitouch display, the latter of which I guess works pretty okay with Bitwig and with VCV Rack (VCV should be improving upon this rather soonish, incidentally).

Anyway, it seemed like it could strike an interesting balance between the more professional-studio-side and the usual laptop-performance-side of computer music production, though, admittedly, this might be a solution in search of a problem. I’m just looking at the long-term and thinking it might be worthwhile to someday invest in such a modular, yet singular approach, most particularly in consideration of the PC’s expanding role in my own music production.

Edit:

I put together a little kit of what one might hypothetically require to make good use of such a system:

https://kit.co/RMBLRX/lolat-audio-rig-for-eurorack

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I have a NUC, with a generation 8 i7 CPU. This sounds like a pretty linear upgrade to me.

I like my NUC. I does many wonderful computes. I use it as a render server for audio and I have no complaints.

Edit: slap a cheapo mini-HDMI monitor on this and you have a touring machine way better than most laptops. It stays safe on my shelf tho. Y’all can bring it on the road. I might eventually bring it on the road b/c it’s so tiny. Maybe use it for an installation. Keep it secret & keep it safe tho. It’s priced almost like a macintosh computer. (Nah j/k it’s not quite that expensive, still not cheap)

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Yeah, if I hadn’t gone with a gaming laptop, I might have jumped on a Skull Canyon NUC just for the portability (though would have missed having a discrete GPU), but I would almost certainly be holding out for a Ghost Canyon machine in that case. At this point, I would only get one if I were itching for an interface upgrade, but on the bright side, I can be satisfied with my ES8 for a good while longer while I patiently await some elusive justification to ditch USB for PCIe.

My journey (decades as well)

-working with a computer as a file managing base in a recording surrounding was groundbreaking for my job. It allowed me to browse sounds and bring them into new sessions-digital lego and a very new approach when prior to this everything had to be recorded in place.

-coming from the guitar i knew fairly quick that midi and a sequencer would upstep my musical output immensely. So i started creating music with a lot of computers only and in no time and abandoned my guitar shamefully for almost 2 decades.

This was the beginning of the nineties and i sort if knew nothing better than to cary on.

The Frustrations that everybody describe in this thread like ‚work-create-stare @ screens all the time‘ came knocking after some years. A little highlight was finding Ableton after being so fed up with all other Sequencers. Also, in my quest of having just 1Plugin suite to cater for all my needs was definitely perfected with Native instruments and Live.

The Situation at work had been stuck with Protools (hehehe that name) and shuffling files in context…but i could get my signature sound out of it anyhow. That Software is not creative at all, it actually screams ‚give me input!‘ i‘m fine with this as i can do a couple of tricks that sign Crazeebo underneath it.

Then 15 years ago i discovered the monome and found it highly inspiring to use with a computer. My creative block and also becoming a dad now needed new ways to be creative. I started a routine that has stuck with me: i switch things on, play completely unaware of whats coming-get my kick out of this and then switch it off again…no recording, no arranging whatsoever. I did this with my guitar again and ended in buying eurorack and patching from scratch-this has led me to find my own sound in rituals that i can only describe as cleansing. I hated my trillion of saved songideas on my computers and the notion that i should finish them one day-this was like 2015

I‘m done with hating on computers, i can use them efficiently to my liking in work or creation, sometime they take submissive roles sometimes they dominate whole projects.

One thing that i was surprised to find out was how i teach my children on how to use computers/software. This is always ‚you have to do it this way‘ there is never a route b or too many routes that will complicate their actions. Its completely different when you present them an unpatched euroracksystem-no mansplaining on my behalf and maximum fun for them to explore. Likewise my daughter after a few piano lessons enjoys improvising just for herself when she wants to-as immediate as the idea in ‚I’m confident, i want to play music‘ i can do that on a computer as well, but thats just because i‘m an experienced veteran with computers.

With that said maybe computer technology is not yet where it should be-interacting with us humans rather than gimmicks that facilitate our actions. Just look at these manual interfaces mouse or trackpad, it seems that they don‘t evolve.

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