#103

After my latest sound design project I had a bit of money to put back into my studio. For a long while I had considered putting together a modular, and i’ve still got plans for a modular—but i ordered a Paca from symbolic sound instead… and it’s supposed to be here. any. damn. second!!!

I like computers, I like fooling around with things in ways they’re not necessarily meant to be toyed with. When I start building a modular (likely at least a year from now, as kyma will keep me busy) I’ll probably be messing around with the firmware or something.

My only issue with “the computer as instrument” is the long list of potential rabbit holes one can fall into—and lead to days or weeks of time with no musical or sonic output. What attracted me to kyma, I think, is it’s self-contained nature, as well as having a powerful tool that I know I’ll devote all my study to. I feel like I don’t have to chase some crazy spectral morph sound with CDP anymore, or even mess with MSP unless I want to. the damn paca isn’t even here yet and i’m already feeling liberated from ever needing to dig into CDP, csound, msp, or anything similar unless i want to.

…I hope i’m right about this…

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#104

oh my… A long time ago, in a galaxy about 50ft from here, I was an early beta tester for the Capybara and Kyma. Even way back then, its depth was amazing.

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#105

I’d love to hear what comes out of this new approach in the “latest track” thread when you feel like sharing! I’ve always been intrigued by Kyma but it’s way too expensive for me to even consider buying it. I’ll be very happy to see what other people do with it (especially as you’re new to it and it would be cool what kind of musical path you take as you discover your new toy/tool/instrument!)

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#106

I think it’s good to make peace with this. I saw a presentation recently discussing the need for play as part of an artists process - ie exploration in different directions, testing ideas, even when those result in nothing immediately useful or meaningful. It totally changed my feeling about time spent exploring with little sound output.

When you are dealing with modular systems like those you mention, you are also talking about instrument design - which naturally takes more time than sound design. The trade-off is that the instruments are unique to you, and that you understand them more completely.

I think you need to always dive into the rabbit holes, but leave a trail of thread - in case you need to find your way out…

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#107

I think I might be a rabbit given my fondness for rabbit holes.

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#108

I guess it does depend on your personal definition of expensive but if you can find one for sale you can usually get pretty good deals on the older Capybara 320 systems. Won’t have the power of a newer model and (I think) you can’t use the latest version of Kyma but still a great system none the less. I got one maybe 3-4 years ago with some expansion cards, firewire interface and a CM Labs Motormix for about €1000. Not an insignificant sum but compared to what all of it would have cost when new, very cheap.

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#109

@sandy do you find that it fulfills your need for DSP, or do you find yourself continuing to pursue other sound generation methods? Is it a “nice to have” or a “can’t live without it” tool for you?

#110

I think it’s in the “very nice to have” category.

Could it be my only DSP? Yes, it could. I’d certainly have to invest more time in learning it better first though. I’ve only really scratched the surface although I tend to feel that about any DSP stuff! I use other DSP as well (MSP, Metasynth and Cecilia) but not for any great reason other than they are either free or I purchased them at sale prices and like trying out different software.

I have been attempting to reduce my stack of music equipment somewhat recently. There are stay and go lists sitting on my desktop as I type. The Capybara is certainly on the stay list. I think it, Max/MSP and a modular synth of some sort would keep me happy for years to come.

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#111

Awesome. I think I just added it to my “someday” list. :slight_smile:

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#112

Make sure you have plenty of rack space if you go for a 320 when that someday maybe arrives. It’s a pretty large and weighty beast!

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#113

I must confess that when you (@sandy) posted that picture of the “back” of your equipment rack in the photos thread I instantly recognized the Capybara (I upgraded a half full Capy to a Pacarana a few years back).

Kyma is very much a rabbit hole that one can get lost in which is both good and bad. I would agree that it is in the very nice to have category. I prefer its more singular focus on Sound/DSP than software like Max.

One thing which I’ve just started to explore is using expert sleepers modules to connect Kyma/Pacarana directly into a eurorack system. Focusing on using Kyma like a software defined module within another system has been interesting because the physical controls and patch cables of the modular become the interface. Having whitewhale and/or meadowphysics drive Kyma was surprisingly satisfying and helped me focus on using it as a tool instead of getting overwhelmed by what one might/could do entirely within Kyma…

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#114

I’ll keep that in the back of my mind for financially better days :slight_smile:

#115

I have a love/hate relationship with using computers to make music. Ableton Live is consistently inspiring (and frustrating). Today I was cutting up samples of ants eating sugar (greatest sample ever, warp modes are great) as the basis of a techno track. I find when I’m in a hardware rut I should just open Live and generate some sounds that would be difficult, expensive, or impossible to pull off otherwise.

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#116

alright, even if i mentioned in one of the first posts of this thread that i was going to buy a laptop to build a hybrid performance setup, that actually never happened. i’m now actively looking into changing that and buy a macbook of some sort. the plan is to run Max, Bitwig, and possibly TidalCycles. do people still rate the macbook air (don’t like the new macbook, mainly because of the keyboard)?

i can get a 13.3" refurbished 2015 macbook air i5 with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD for relatively cheap. i like the small size and weight of these things. that is still a priority.

#117

i can get a 13.3" refurbished 2015 macbook air i5 with 8GB RAM and 128GB SSD for relatively cheap. i like the small size and weight of these things. that is still a priority.

I run a 2011 Macbook Air 13" with i7 and 4GB RAM and 256GB SSD.
I run Live suite on this with some Max stuff (but not heavy). I normally run 4 synth (non sampled), and 4 channels of synth drums and sampled drums. Plus effects on all of that. This puts me at about 50% CPU max, and is quite “comfortable” from a performing perspective. I run in 32bit mode, since with 4GB RAM, there is no point in 64bit. Probably with 8GB it’d be the same, unless you think BitWig would need more than 4GB for itself!

Now comparing models, you can look here: mine and your proposed. Roughly in CPU, yours will be about 20% faster in CPU. So - a little more oomph.

I’m quite happy with mine. Current or recent models aren’t so much more that I’m tempted to replace it. The only thing lacking I’d find in the model you found is the SSD seems small to me. Even at 256GB, I’m often having to clear out old audio projects from a few months ago to have space.

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#118

thanks @mzero for the elaborate response. i hear you on the 128GB SSD. the alternative would be to go for essentially the same configuration with 4GB RAM and 256GB SSD. costs about the same from apple’s refurbished store. is 4gb RAM really enough? what version of macos are you running?

#119

I’m running 10.11 (El Cap). At this point 10.12 would probably be okay … but it absolutely nothing in it for me, so I’m just, er, not bothering!

4GB is plenty for me - I only feel it when I do something crazy like have iMove and Live and some other big App all up at once… Which is rare. But just running Live for my work - be it mixing down, or performing, or doing Disquiet Juntos - 4GB is plenty. I’m loading up 100s of tracks for a DJ set - nor mixing down 100+ tracks. I can mix down an hour long live session (thee or four stereo tracks) just fine.

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#120

great, thanks. that sounds like more than good enough for me. looks like i’ll have a macbook air inbound shortly.

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#121

I’d like to present a counterpoint to the hardware fetishism that dominates electronic music, because this has become a very dogmatic and one-sided discussion. To an unhealthy extent, because we let vendors and instrument makers almost completely control the conversation. If you didn’t read this thread, you might actually have a hard time finding a counterpoint to the hordes of “anti-computer” folks out there. There are a lot of us who use computers or hybrid setups, we just don’t have as much to say.

Trying to make music without a DAW is often an exercise in frustration. It’s massively expensive, limiting(and not always in fun ways), distracting, takes up a ton of space, and can burn a ton of time you might be spending on more creative activities. MIDI controllers, plugins and a DAW have about 100x the musical potential per dollar as hardware does. Analog rarely sounds that different than emulations of it, and buying stuff seldom unblocks creative frustration in the way that learning technique, theory, and ideas does.

Lots of awesome music comes out of people using computers. Buying tons of stuff and switching to hardware is unlikely to fix a problem that you have not defined, to help you achieve a vision that you’re not making explicit, etc. Last year I wrapped up a years-long quest to replace FLStudio, only to discover that doing so was not only expensive, but nearly impossible. I also discovered quickly that sync issues aren’t limited to software, and that I was chasing my tail. It was frustrating, expensive, time consuming, unproductive, and I gained nothing from it. Today, I’ve kept the best little slices of hardware I got along that journey, but I could take or leave most of it.

So if you’re frustrated right now and thinking about leaving the computer behind - ask yourself if you’re frustrated with the computer, or just frustrated at your own creative block. Are you “tired of looking at a screen” or are you just pissy because you’re STUCK and you’ve exhausted all your current ideas. Think about what gives you ideas and inspires you. Maybe that’s “KNOB PER FUNCTION”… but it could also be “MOROCCAN FOOD” or “FOLK ART” or “PLUMBING”. Be brave, define the problem that you’re trying to solve before you charge into the gear videos. Even if that’s uncomfortable.

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#122

Counter-counterpoint: use whatever you want/what works for you & ignore anyone telling you what you should be using.

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