#143

Sometimes i use hardware and sometimes i use a computer. Often both.
Using only hardware gives me totally different results then only using a computer.
I just use the tool what gives me the results i’m after at that moment.

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#144

Fwiw, this forum has many many computer positive threads.

You’re in good company. It’s just that many of us, maybe most, aren’t religious about this. We use gear that makes sense for our goals in the moment. Often that involves software on a computer. Sometimes it doesn’t.

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#145

If there’s one forum that is not monotheistic in this regard it is this one.

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#146

Good number of years (and releases) using trackers, then migrated to ITB DAW, now also have hardware. Currently I experience the most joy when I directly touch the equipment. No staring at a 2D display, and having a mouse or trackpad between my hand and what i’m manipulating. My eyes feel better. I move and with that the sound changes too. When I get something going I bring my computer in, and record to separate tracks. I’m currently looking for a way to integrate both into a tighter workflow, so have taken up to tidying up my DAW space.

It’s not an either/or topic. Buying tons of stuff feels nice if you can afford it. Certainly not a great way of going about things and is so likely to derail you completely, but it is also very likely to fix your problem if your problem is you don’t know what tools work well for you.

Sure I’ve had it up to here with plugins and licenses and software updates and the computer getting in my way of creating, but that’s not in scope here. I doubt anyone is frustrated and thinks about leaving the computer behind the way it’s written up at the start.

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#147

I don’t think this forum has that problem though, so the post is aimed a little strangely. You currently have 20 likes on your OP. I don’t think that’s because you’ve said something groundbreaking that we hadn’t realized until now - I think it’s because many people agree with you to some degree, including myself!

This discussion might be better categorized under ‘Process’ than ‘Equipment’ TBH.

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#148

One could also point out that even if you stick to a computer, that community isn’t really free of GAS either. It’s generally easier/cheaper to indulge in it, but you can still rack up quite a bill, spend a lot of time obsessing over which sample library or plugin to get next, or argue on forums about which plugin sounds “the most analog” or whatever :slight_smile:

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#149

Thanks.

I think this is especially vital for people who learn to produce music with a computer first and are then told by the internet it’s a somehow inauthentic or inferior process.

Moving from an all-software to all-hardware setup is an objectively retrograde switch on many fronts and for digital natives can mean giving up on speed, control or capability in a way that’s detrimental to the work or just leads to creative frustration and distraction.

Tools influence process. Your tool set and proficiency create a horizon of possibility that will consciously and unconsciously guide creative behaviour. You’ll form valences towards options informed by questions like “how easy / frustrating is this” “do I know what this will do” “how long will this take” “how many choices will I have to make” “will this sound good to me”.

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#150

To be honest, the most common reason I hear regarding people not wanting to use computers in their music isn’t about it being “better” per se, but rather than computers are so ubiquitous that making music without computers is desirable because it gives people a break from them - especially when many of us use them all day in our jobs.

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#151

One of the reasons I participate here on llllllll.co is because you won’t, in general, find that kind of discussion here.

I suggest, rather than kindle such discussion, it would be more productive to discuss your musical journey: Why did you try to move you away from composing in the box, what worked, and what did you discard, and what works in your current workflow? Even better would be to provide a glimpse behind your latest work - relating music to practice is instructive and much appreciated.

You hint that perhaps your circumstance turned out to be more about being artistically stuck than equipment. We’d love to hear about this, and your journey to get un-stuck.

This place is an amazing community of people, creating music in so many different ways, for so many different reasons - all good! I love that our focus is mutual growth and exploration, not opinion.

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#152

I appreciate that there’s a movement towards reducing the compulsion to edit while you’re working out ideas. Turning off your screen is amazing for that.

I don’t appreciate that there’s a backlash against everything else a computer offers, like free software, customizable patching environments, inexpensive access to classic sound engines, etc.

You can have it all. Just understand your goals…

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#153

3 billion human lives ended on August 29th, 1997. The survivors of the nuclear fire called the war, Judgement Day. They lived only to face a new nightmare. The war against “The Machines”.

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#154

I’ve certainly noticed an increase in the amount of people who will proudly proclaim that they refuse to use a computer for making music - as though we should all stand in solidarity with them in support of their brave sacrifice - but thankfully none of that seems to happen around here. One of the many reasons I’m so happy to have found this community. :slight_smile:

I spend all day working in front of a computer, and then as much time as I can in front of a computer working on music. It doesn’t bother me in the slightest, but sometimes I wonder if that’s because I use different operating systems for each task.

I do also have a healthy chunk of hardware synths, but most of them were purchased when using a computer for making music was really a luxury as opposed to the norm. It seems that as time has moved on, the opposite is now true.

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#155

I see a lot of references to DAWs as the vehicle for computer music. DAWs are great, but I just want to call out the imho killer feature of computer music: programmability. It doesn’t always mean typing text, but the flexibility of being able to build an entire instrument from top to bottom exactly as I choose to dream it up, whatever the specific means may be, and then have the option of interacting with it through a command-based interface if I want is a pretty unique and amazing thing. Buttons, knobs, faders and such are great but the option to basically speak to your instrument using a dialect of your own design to ask it to carry out musical tasks that you have taught it to undertake is just a really really great thing.

(Sharing that thought b/c maybe we can share what we like about computers without needing to reject everything that isn’t a computer?)

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#156

the experience is the focal point imho.
example: i spend a good amount of time fiddling with the er-301 which IS (as the subtitle of the module says) a computer (a sound computer).
or course i could do a lot of that with reaktor (which i know fairly well), max (which i’m learning), or another ton of apps.
fact is: the 301 environment is the one most suited to my taste, i have more fun with it, it is less frustrating, it sounds better than other solutions to my ears in most applications.

that said i still use the computer (i’m an ableton certified trainer so i use Live a lot at school, but also for recording\editing\sometimes mixing\mastering my stuff) but lately i tend to use it to study stuff i don’t know (max, supercollider,audulus etc…) because there i find challenge,inspiration etc…
for my music making and performing i love my 12u rig (empowered by the presence of the 301), with all its limitations and awkwardness (cables, multiple power supplies, external mixer etc…)

#157

I always do the opposite of what I’m told.

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#158

In that case I’m telling you to do the opposite of what you’re told :wink:

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#159

Computers come with their own baggage and you can waste a lot of time maintaining them, which also takes away from more creative activities.

FLStudio doesn’t interest me much and I doubt it would inspire me like more esoteric ways of working that challenge my expectations of what tools should be. I would guess there are a few of us who are somewhat anti-DAW and see them, not computers, as a blocker for creativity. Some of the most interesting computer music I’ve heard has been made without a DAW. There’s a whole world of people making interesting stuff with Pure Data, Max/MSP, Supercollider, C Sound, Tidal Cycles, and other software.

That said, I love both computers and hardware. I think we should not be purists about it and explore it all if we have the means.

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#160

this conversation seems mostly about what shape you like your computer in :slight_smile:

sitting here I can’t even count how many computers are on my desk:

At least 7 of my eurorack modules are digital/code based, Audio interefaces. - all have computers in them, couple of cameras, couple of digital synths, Norns, Organelle, rPi, Axolotti, My Zoom H6 which I use for recording if I’m not using my DAW (not to mention watch, phone and iPads :slight_smile: ) - hell even some digital wires (thunderbolt etc) have CPUs in them

Unless you are recording on analog tape through an analog mixer and with microphones are analog synths then there are computers like it or not…

For me personally - I don’t care: I work DAWless, I work in the box, I do what ever I need to make the music - for my creative practice I find it good to ‘mix it up’ breaking my workflow constantly to make me think about it more but that’s not ideal for everyone.Like a number of people here my problem tends to me “I could just write some code to do that” rather than getting to the music directly - an instinct I try and fight

I think the question really should be more about - why certain tools lead to perhaps less creative habits. DAWs do seem to add a shape to music by encouraging a workflow, the Grid has shaped modern music (Rick Beato had a good youtube on this recently) that is more what we should be getting away from I think. One reason I’m keen on iOs as a platform - while it still has the Grid it does seem to have started heading away from traditional DAW style working

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#161

There is also a wider discussion to have about the role of computers in music (over)production. Here is one take by one of the industry insiders. My apologies if this lies outside of the rather narrow definition of ‘music’ in this thread.

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#162

It seems to me that this thread is very similar to another one here on lines:

What do you all think about merging the two?

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