#202

I’d say both are really interesting platforms,
what I really like about both is the strong sense of community that surrounds them.
being open, flexible and community oriented, I think is largely more important than the technical differences ( esp. if you are not a programmer)
so, I think investigating the communities, and what they are doing, saying, and seeing which ‘gels’ with you the most, is probably the way to see which is going to work for you.

at the risk of generalising (so, I don’t claim this is true for all), but my observations are:

Norns:
it’s newer, it’s about possibilities… it has a strong community

the community currently feels more ‘technical’ to me than the Organelle … but thats likely the nature of it being quite new. (10 months old?) and could very well change as it matures.

I think Norns strength is being part of the Monome ecosystem, tight integration with the grid, later with Crow, and other Monome products - seamless integration, using their full potential is a really appealing combination.

but, for those not invested in Monome, adding a grid adds $700, so a frequent question is:
Can I use it without a grid?
this I think is a very tricky question… technically the answer is YES.
but what the question is really asking is:
how many / what type of scripts am I going to be missing out on?
how many developers are going to support non-grid users?

this we will only know as the community develops, the more users without grids, the better they will be supported. for now, its seems like more complex scripts, esp. those with sequencing elements, will require a grid, and those concentrating more on fx/synths won’t.

I repeat, I’m not saying a Norns requires a grid - rather currently, you need one to open up its full potential. (e.g. I doubt there will be a version of MLR for a non monome grid in the short term)
this is not a criticism … the Monome grid is lovely, its fantastic to have a platform which allows its potential to be fully explored.

technically, Norns has more resources/cpu than the Organelle - which I think will become more apparent as Norns matures. but, as always its down to what you do with them :wink:

Organelle:
self contained, with a fixed form (albeit limited) factor that all patches use, and pretty simple.

I believe Pure Data (and visual patching generally ) is much easier for non-programmers to pick up, and ‘dabble’ with. esp. since Norns splits patching into two parts Lua for control and SC for audio.

the community is more mature than Norns… so you can see, despite the limitations, the Organelle has been pushed in many different directions , for me, this makes it feel really quite a vibrant place.

the form factor is limited (*) , but what I love about it, is I know its the same for everyone, so as a patch developer , I know what I have to work with, and I know everyone can use my patch.
(sure I add midi learn, and orac 2.0 has a ‘remote interface’ , but this is alway optional!)

also I love its cute/small form factor , grab some headphones, a usb battery pack, and play it on the sofa.
for some reason I think its simplicity in form factor, spills over to the patches (probably due to the C&G influence) , generally they seem playful, don’t take themselves too seriously.

(*) hmm, I keep on saying the form factor is limited, in fairness, the norns is also limited…
norns: bigger display, 16 brightness levels, 3 encoders, 3 buttons
organelle: small b&w display, 1 push encoder , 5 pots, 25 keys , 1 tristate led

if your invested (or want to be!) into the Monome ecosystem, I think Norns is great, its got huge potential, seems like an obvious choice.

if you want something self contained, its not as easy…
I think, for me, the Organelle currently has the edge, its cheaper, its simpler, its self contained, and its more mature…
(note: I’d love to review this in one year… when norns will be more mature, more scripts etc etc)

but as said at the top, and by others…
if you want an open/flexible platform, which you can tweak , either is great - both are really down to what you make of them!

5 Likes
#204

This is an incredibly helpful reply, thank you! I’ll probably sit on it for a bit and have more questions in an hour or two, but I guess for now these are my current thoughts:

I think the Organelle is a lot more inviting to an outsider because of the massive amount of documentation and real world demonstrations of it. C&G seem to constantly be releasing new patches and provide very useful tutorials. This is something that I feel is lacking a bit with the Norns, which makes it harder to approach for me. It’s difficult for me to really understand what it’s capable of, especially since pairing it with other controllers unlocks new functions. I would say there are a lot of aspects to the Norns that I like better but it’s just so freaking hard to wrap my mind around. Like you said, it’s still new and as it matures there will probably be more resources available, but as of now it’s super cryptic. Which I think is unfair to it, because it seems like a very powerful, open-ended (maybe too open-ended) machine.

#205

I’m sorry to piggyback off my own comment, but I’m wondering, since I believe there to be some overlap in functionality, could the Organelle be viewed as a beginner’s Norns? Something that could be used to dip your toes into the workflow of a do-anything device while the Norns matures?

1 Like
#206

I don’t think your being unfair to the norns, the Organelle had to go thru similar maturity stages, many didn’t understand it initially either, and C&G took the time to improve things - it’s a natural part of product development.
(but we should be clear, whilst we talk maturity etc… the norns is perfectly useable today, and theres a strong community to help you - we are talking ‘relative’ here)

Organelle as a beginner norns?
Interesting, for sure, you could learn about patch design/programming, and much of that is transferable even if it is not using the same languages - and perhaps more importantly, you can learn if it’s something that even interests you! (be under no illusion, many don’t enjoy programming!)

I personally, don’t think there is a huge jump in capabilities from an Organelle to Norns, except if the rest of the monome ecosystem is calling you.

… and, if you know you want to go the monome (esp. grid) route, then its cheaper to get a norns now, then add a grid later… than buying an organelle, then norns, then grid :slight_smile:
( and the norns is useable today, its not like you have to wait for it “become useable”)

that said, whilst technically similar, the patches (*) and communities are very different, I think that will always be the case - i think they have quite different user bases, and target markets.

but if you are lucky enough to have both, they can probably complement each other nicely,
both Norns and Organelle are limited in terms of processing power, (unlike a laptop),
at some point they run out of steam, and so at that point an additional norns/organelle is useful.
at that point 2 different things perhaps is more fun/versatile that 2 of the same.

(*) ok, they are both digital synths… so can basically run the same stuff
e.g. Norns lovely reverb, can also be run on the Organelle - similarly Clouds which runs on the Organelle could be ported to Norns … in both cases, they’d sound very similar.
(again, if this happens is down to what the community wants/does)

3 Likes
#207

Thank you. Once again I’ll need to spend some time going through your reply.

Something I feel I’m lacking in my music right now is a more aleatoric approach to looping. It’s a bit tiring having all four tracks of a looped cassette always falling in the same place. That’s something I’d like to do with the Norns, it can do that right?

Another question I have is, what functionality does the Norns have on its own, and what does the grid add to it?

#208

This is interesting. Who do you think the Organelle is for, and who do you think the Norns is for?

1 Like
#209

This is the most I have ever resonated with a synthesizer advert.

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#210

Wow, very impressive revision. Lots of useful features, and the additional processing power is very welcome for building complex patches in ORAC without hitting the ceiling. Speaking just for myself, the addition of MIDI DIN (edit: oops, 1/8" TRS MIDI - the video confused me about this) makes it a very cool companion for the Empress ZOIA (which lacks USB MIDI).

Only questionable addition for me is that big honkin’ speaker on the left, which adds considerably to the length. Granted, it’s probably a very good speaker, unlike the OP-1’s. Maybe even better than Critter & Guitari’s eurorack speaker. But I just keep looking at the thing like “Why is it so long? Does the M in ‘Organelle M’ stand for Mobile? How?” It simply looks unnatural in this form factor. But maybe I’m just used to staring at the Mk I Organelle for hours on end.

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#211

So new organelle physically larger, then? Looked for size specs but couldn’t find.

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#212

oh its definitely longer with that speaker. looks like they added about 3 inches. the onboard mic is a no brainer, and im glad they threw one in.

#213

Selfishly speaking, I’m glad I sold my Organelle 1) when it was discontinued and hard to find anywhere, and 2) about a month before Mk2 was announced.

Unselfishly speaking, Mk1 has a better form factor, and will be considerably cheaper now - probably approaching $325, $350? Great time to buy.

3 Likes
#214

i kinda wish i had sold mine then too tbh. I was on the fence and then decided to keep it.

#215

Another thing about the addition of MIDI jacks - USB MIDI with Organelle mk1 was an absolute pain. Organelle is a MIDI host. Your computer (which runs your DAW) is a MIDI host. You can’t do host <-> host connections and have things work right out of the gate. I couldn’t get it to work with USB-to-MIDI cables either, or with my iConnectAudio4+. Something like @okyeron’s upcoming (and much-needed in the market) 2host would do the trick, but it’s an additional gadget to carry with you. So the addition of dedicated TRS jacks means, I believe, that you can actually use the Organelle for everything MIDI you’d expect, and it should also do its nifty USB MIDI host duties simultaneously.

1 Like
#216

The mio2 works quiet seamlessly for me to do host to host connection btw.

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#217

Thank you for this - it’s fascinating to see the development.

That said, I’m afraid I gave up waiting to buy one - it seemed like they sold out almost as soon as a new batch became available.

It will be interesting to see how the revisions (especially the addition of the built-in speaker, which really makes a big difference to the immediate visual impression) will be received!

#218

that announcement video is so fun! yay animation :slight_smile:

8 Likes
#219

So I stopped wanting one, and now I want one again ? Why am I even checking these threads. I’ll go contemplate life in the “GAS Haiku” and “The Influence of Zen” threads and forget about all of this.

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#220

its now 34cm long vs 27cm of the original… basically the size of the speaker, which is actually quite a nice size, and big enough for when you’re outside :wink:

its a really nice form factor - I love it…
the portability is amazing, and it now boots and shutdowns so quickly. I also like the switch to the TRS output jack. actually, there are a whole bunch of things i really love about it.
(also due to the move to raspbian is now also has better compatibility with other hardware e.g. portable HDMI screens)

p.s. don’t worry if you have the Organelle 1, nothing lost there, its still a great machine capable of lots more things yet :slight_smile:

5 Likes
#221

I connect my Organelle to the computer with a cheap midi cable interface via OP-Lab.
honestly, from my point o view, for who has sold the organelle this upgrade doesn’t seem a good reason to buy it again. i hope in an upgrade with the wi-fi chip on board, and the same op-z’s ability to use a phone as a dedicated display

#222

The same OPZ’s ability to use AN IPHONE as a dedicated display. That’s just… a precision that matters I think :slight_smile:

2 Likes