^^ crow: max for live + max: updated 210630

Hi everyone!
been playing around with m4l and a crow for almost a week now - waaaa, it’s so great.
Have a question though - is it only me, but can’t make ^^trigs work, dead silence. :expressionless:
Get around with putting 4 ^^outs inside a drum rack but still puzzled what’s wrong with the trigs. Any suggestions how to debug the issue? :slight_smile:

hey hey! welcome :slight_smile:

hmm. ^^trigs requires midi notes to fire off – how are you sending midi to the device? fwiw, Live treats c3 as midi note 60, so if you are using a keyboard you might need to adjust your octave.

any specific repro steps about how you’re setting up the device will help focus the troubleshooting :revolving_hearts:

Awesome, thanks for the amxd update. It makes Geode alot more playable.
I am going to start looking at Teletype / Crow type scripts to incorporate Geode, so that info is really helpful. Thankyou :slight_smile:

1 Like

so yeah, I have a drums midi score I wanna trig via crow, and I tried to use this settings of ^^trigScreen Shot 2020-08-01 at 13.13.52
so I’ve adjusted the midi notes, can I check inside a max object what’s going wrong?

So this is the successful setup with ^^outs:

Can someone tell me what is wrong with this patch? It was working, except I couldn’t get the adsr to behave properly… Now it magically doesn’t work at all. For context, I’m patching the 3 pitch CVs from Crow to Odessa’s Hel expander in 3 voice mode, and the adsr voltage from output 4 into the CV in of a VCA.

Messages are coming out of all the objects like crow.n2v and crow.adsr, but nothing comes out of Crow itself. Please forgive me I’m new to Max.

hey! thanks for the ping + sorry for the frustration!

let’s try replacing the crow. objects with straight-up messages to crow – that should help clarify where trouble lies. while they were re-tested before release, the crow. library was built using methods for crow 1.0 that are no longer needed with crow 2.0 and are likely just gunking up the patch (they were a community contribution and haven’t been regularly updated). at this point, directly addressing crow with the standard messages is more canonical and i’ll sunset the crow. library if they introduce too many speedbumps (or if we aren’t able to get them tended to).

tearing apart the m4l devices and the crow object’s help file, should give some good starting points for building all kinds of stuff – i’ll also be adding more to the ^^ recipes: max / m4l snippets for crow soon (as well as others, hopefully! :slight_smile: )!

here's what *seems* like a comparable version of your patch done with the standard crow messages. untested, but should work.

----------begin_max5_patcher----------
2948.3oc4b01iaiaD9y69qPv.GPN.GW9hnjXA5GR50KE31bsHIEAE4BBjso8
orxRF5Eu61C28au7EIYIa8pMsh21MHZ4JSoYdF9vgyLj69a2dyj4gOxhmX7m
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enQHJXr4L25Qp0fIsRrQfJfB5.nX8Az3sQdAIqLheRH.ieQf1soIeB+4Y6B8
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34hMbJRQFvDJBRTmNmxKxpEEbaZz11K0ViouZWbT6LkmsFoC.wTLRGqMXBPT
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jPi6Dw2MQaxONgsJ02OoyhveRUC6vCunCg.UUL0BaiUG3VK9TNstuU4fJ4j1
Xg9FDrNrGHdBLpSoHtXpAFQwTs5cLgEec86HwCkxS57dIO0ebgs5LCefXPTl
HCNari6RMqH08pFu873hVeYBfTJvxIaMHyrM00B.T+1ZzXAf+AunjmL9aqCO
IeBpeOUkaUj7uYXayFrk+IC51e+1+K33nKNA
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

plz lemme know how it goes + if you end up with more questions!

1 Like

Thanks for the response. Well I actually unplugged it and plugged it back in and it was back to how it was. Still having adsr issues so before I try this out though, what are the settings on the dials and what are their minimum and maximum values?

oh! if you click the triangle above the image in my last post, i pasted the code for the patcher so you can just load it up easily on your machine. copy everything including the ----------begin_max5_patcher---------- and -----------end_max5_patcher-----------, then in Max select ‘New From Clipboard’.

open the Inspector (CMD-I) and select any of the dials to see their min/max values.

does this help? or am i misunderstanding?

Oh neat! Okay yes that woll help, yes. Will let you know how it goes when I get home from work. And I know there’s probably a better place for this (go ahead and direct me there if you wish) but if I may ask, how would I go about duplicating the pitch value of 1 to 2 and 3 as well, unless there is a 2nd or 3rd note being played? Being new to Max I have no idea how to approach a “do this unless this” scenario.

hey! yeah, this is more of a general Max patching question (since this is about routing MIDI in Max – crow as an output is swappable with any MIDI destination) which would get the best attention/advice here: Max/msp & max4live (the thread)

i’ll think on it a bit and see if i come up with a good solution in the meantime :slight_smile:

Hmm okay well the messages are all telling me the right things (including the thing you showed me in the other thread). But in reality nothing is happening. Pitches aren’t changing, and output 4 seems to just be outputting max voltage nonstop no matter what i change the ADSR paramaters to. Tried refreshing, turning off, turning on, etc… not helping this time. Also I tested ^^outs just to be sure my module is working and it is, ^^outs worked fine.

Also Max console says “error opening serial port” when I try to select my crow.

hmm — could you please post a Copy Compressed version of your patcher here for further troubleshooting?

Summary

----------begin_max5_patcher----------
3060.3oc2br9iahb+yIR2+CHKcR4jbbmGL.Sk5GtzqWNoto8TxVEUsWTD1dV
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0To6z
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

Update, I have been using this alongside the Command Center this whole time. I guess maybe I only was supposed to be doing that for the built-in m4l devices? I tried using this Max device without ^^cc and it sort of works, but the adsr behaves strangely. Sustain seems to affect max volume/voltage. Also when I let go of the pads on my controller, it triggers the adsr again, although this time it goes on forever, no release.

For now I’ve substituted it for a velocity sensitive gate to patch into an adsr module in the eurorack. At least i’m able to produce melodies and play around with this setup a bit.

hey hey!

AH, that’ll do it, yes. ^^command_center is only necessary if you are not supplying your own [crow] object inside the device – it has one built into it.

if you’re going to route to ^^command_center from another Max for Live device, instead of using a [crow] object, just use s commands_to_command_center with an index so ^^command_center knows which crow hardware to talk to, eg.:

all of the crow m4l devices are built this way. ^^command_center is necessary because there can only be one [crow] object running at a time. just like druid – it creates a special bond with the hardware, so having multiple [crow] objects talking to one hardware destination creates the connectivity + communication troubles you experienced.

yes, it was not patched properly – but also, crow’s adsr operates as a description of an envelope, rather than one which waits for a note-off event. so the timing of each stage just executes linearly, after it is triggered. i will work on a traditional adsr patcher, but I do think that using an external envelope module with a note-on-to-gate patch would be best – and i’ve posted a thoroughly tested one here: ^^ recipes: max / m4l snippets for crow :slight_smile:

1 Like

Very cool stuff, and thanks for the insight!

Wow! This new geode mode is a lot of fun. The Max device makes it so playable!
Thanks @dan_derks
Can’t help but think this would be a fantastic Norns app. Even in its current state this would be great but with a more fine tuned UI/grid interface it could be a really cool poly rhythmic trigger sequencer.

3 Likes

Yes, I was thinking this also - that UI + some built in modulation sources / cc to change the numbers, as a Norns script

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I’m starting to work on some Max patches for Arc and Crow. I’ve noticed if I send crow.volts values outside the range of voltage the module locks up and I need to unplug and re-detect it. I started to prevent this using split to limit the range of numbers I send.

It feels a little silly bringing this up because it must have been discovered by now and discussed but I haven’t been able to dig that up. Putting this here in case it can help someone else or if there’s more about this I should be thinking about.

hey! honestly, the crow-dot library was all community contributed and just hasn’t since received the right attention to get up to speed with 2.0 — i did some basic tests of it when releasing the m4l 2.0 devices, but nothing that would’ve caught something outside of “does it work under expected values?”, unfortunately. i feel badly removing it completely from the distro, though, and would love someone to take the mantel of that library’s maintenance.

good news, tho, is that crow’s 2.0 firmware makes the crow-dot library largely unnecessary — tons of additions and improvements to the core library that can be addressed using the sprintf commands that are demonstrated in the crow object’s help patcher.

if you have a specific thing you’re trying to do, please feel free to post a patcher — it’ll kickstart some good dialogue and i’m sure we can get it to a good place :slight_smile:

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