#63

Forgive me what is probably a basic question, but what to the X/Y CVs control in the your 4 Joystick Quad Mixer concept? Trying to wrap my head around how the stereo signal is being treated on the way to becoming quad.

1 Like
#64

I think this would be a radically different (and good!) idea, to be honest.

That, or taking DB25 as input - essentially, anything to reduce cable mess! But having different i/o options handles the problem that some people want XLR’s for mics, others are fine with 3.5mm for eurorack.

#65

A good question…

Like on the Buchla 204 “Quad Spatial Director”, there would be four mono ins: 1, 2, 3, 4, and one quad out: Front Left, Front Right, Rear Left and Rear Right. Each of the four mono input signals could be panned around to any of the four channels, which I’m imagining would be around the four corners of the room. All four mono ins would be mixed into the same quad output, but each input could be panned to its own location in the room, as desired, using the joysticks.

Stereo signals could be patched into two adjacent mono inputs. In basic usage the two adjoining joysticks could be manually swung to the desired positions, which could be separated by any amount, as directed by the joysticks. The stereo inputs can be near each other in a corner of the room, or on opposite walls. They can pan together, or one channel can race ahead of the other, spinning more rapidly, or it could go in the opposite direction. One channel could sit in the middle of the room while the other bops back and forth, randomly, between the various corners.

Each signal is completely separately controlled, but the controls can be linked by similar hand movements.

(slightly edited for clarity)

#66

Just catching up with this, but I believe this is a beautiful idea. I think this community has rightly identified a tremendous gap in the open hardware arena. Open mixer would be wonderful.

edit I do have one immediate idea, maybe if the PCB could be designed as modular stages, and then combined into a final universal sum circuit? Like if someone required, 2 mono, 3 mono, mix of mono or stereo etc. There could be a pan module, or send/return module depending on need? If the layout was standardized all you would have to do is modify the .dxf file to taste to add more stages.

Don’t want to over complicate this or bring it closer to euro territory. The idea of this as a stand alone box is very appealing

edit 2 let me over complicate this lol. Is the idea this would be done using opamp circuits entirely? Or is there any sense in exploring digital control? Adding a teensy, single encoder, and OLED screen could add lots of possibilities.

4 Likes
#67

oh my these are lovely, the first one in particular is pretty much exactly what I have been looking for minus one more fx send.

#68

when i saw @markeats sketches for a design it reminded me in the back of my mind of something from long ago… and then i found this:

:grinning:

2 Likes
#69

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a remix of this idea, very hastily (and messily) drawn…

six mono channels, simple-eq (tilt), pan, 3-way switch for mute/solo, two stereo sends, master 3-band eq (those knobs could be repurposed for return levels, drive, etc. if that’s more interesting), ARS-style meter in the corner.

edit - slightly updated for legibility

11 Likes
#70

Thanks!

One suggestion: vertically orientated mute/solo switches would
(a) allow easier comparison of mute/solo states between channels at one glance
(b) allow slightly easier state change of multiple channels in one swiping gesture (although this really depends on the type of switch being used).

EDIT: +1 for having at least 2 stereo input channels, or even a configurable system.

1 Like
#71

agreed on both counts. vertical space is challenging, so orienting switches vertically might necessitate the move to a smaller switch design, but I’m totally guessing on the size represented here anyway, so it’s good enough for now.

plenty of (surface) room for extra jacks for channels 5 & 6 to be stereo.

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#72

I personally wouldn’t mind digital control. This would also make it possible to make the less live-oriented controls (EQ, pan, maybe the second send) shared between channels, sort of like the Zoom LiveTrak series.

1 Like
#73

This is very nice.
I know we are talking conceptually but:
Could one control the A and B return volume levels?
Does the main volume pot allow for gain of low signal levels as well?

#74

minimal as in “small” can’t happen magically: the current sketches ate impossible due to mechanical space requirements. 1/4" jacks eat space (ask yourself why norns has a large void at the top… i do value negative space, but the jacks were a major design constraint)

also having an IEC plug with internal power supply is a big ask: tons of large components are needed for clean power.

think of existing designs. most companies don’t make things big just to be big: quite the opposite in fact. bigger commonly means more expensive because more material. but sometimes smaller can mean more expensive because the mechanics are fiddly or complex.

22 Likes
#75

I figured as much. Just to ground this a little bit more (I imagine there’s plenty of impossible things hiding in the sketch), is the reference point of ~32mm from the rear of norns to the first knob/button a fair guidance for clearance?

If so, the design above would need to grow a tiny bit, but less than an inch. I don’t think an internal power supply is a must-have either.

edit - I should point out that the thing I’ve made isn’t really all that tiny (determining scale from the sketch is not the easiest). It’s roughly 11.5" x 7" (7.5" with more clearance for the jacks), so much quite a bit larger than a grid.

#76

Personally I would be very interested in the electronic design side of things. I’m not a electronics engineer in any way but I’ve done lots of synth DIY and also learned a little PCB making skills along the way.
I know there are a lot of (open source) mixer schematics online not the least some very good ones from e.g. Mutable Instruments. In the most simple version it’s just some resistors with 2 opamps.
But there is always the issue of power supply that needs to be very clean for an audio mixer.
I’ve been wondering for a while if these kind of devices make a simple clean power supply solution for a mixer.
https://www2.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MEAN-WELL/DPU01L-12?qs=5aG0NVq1C4zMaeVnCi%2Bd1g==

#77

it’s a slow morning here, so I did a very cursory 3-d model of my previous sketch using mostly primitive shapes. size is 300 x 200 x 55mm.

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norns for scale

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curious on people’s thoughts on the size. is this too big to be minimal?

edit -
it’s slightly smaller than a Nagra tapedeck
it’s slightly larger than an Electron Cycles
it’s quite a bit larger than a K-Mix

11 Likes
#78

Agreed, what i’m seeing is the desire for 3? different mixers. One quadraphonic, one “dream/feature perfect” and a “minimal” …

Wondering if this minimal idea just means to some: Aluminum with black knobs and minimal labeling? (meaning no offense, I :heart: the monome design aesthetic, and that would factor into my use a mixer)

The Bastl Dude seems a minimal mixer… This mixer from syntherjack is a minimal mixer…

This seems like a good idea to me… Everyone is going to have different needs… Minimalism requires ruthless prioritizing of features, be they technical or tactile. Fewer, quality, focused ideas, deeply designed… Once the technical feature set is agreed on the industrial design crew can work to organize those into a useful/fun/expressive layout.

6 Likes
Mobile mixers (battery powered, passive)
#79

Thanks for the quick turnaround!

After further thinking about it, I can’t help to notice that having 2 stereo sends but no stereo returns which means having to use the 2 full stereo channel strips (or 4 mono channel strips!) as returns feels unbalanced to me.

So if space allows, I’d suggest to add 2 stereo returns, each with just a level control on the main surface (small rotary knobs in the top row?).

#80

there’s stereo return jacks on the box, I think the question is if you need a return level control or if you can manage that via the send level and on the send in question.

rather than cramming more things into the master channel part of the box, I’d say that there’s some limited number of controls on the master channel and tradeoffs have to be made. I had 4 controls set as a 3-band eq and master level, but maybe that’s return a, return b, ???, and master level…

3 Likes
#81

Using an external power supply also helps with the international voltages too :slight_smile:

4 Likes
#82

IEC plugs are really big indeed, but maybe using a figure-8 connector might make it acceptable.

As for keeping the power clean, what about a pcb-mount AC-DC switching converter, cascaded with a linear regulator, that’d bring you the best of both worlds, and you get to keep the “just-plug-it-to-the-wall” attitude.

But yeah, also USB power is inviting, as usb chargers are quite ubiquitous and cheap nowadays…