Crowdsourced mixer design

[nff]

you can make the internal psu compliant to the 110-250vac range, an external brick is not strictly necessary for the sake of that

[emenel]

Maybe people already know this, but with all the talk of a modular mixer it would be worth keeping in mind that almost all pro mixing consoles are modular and have been since the 60s… each channel is a separate module that attached via a card slot or ribbon cable, and often there are sub-modules for things like EQ, aux sends, busses, compressors, etc.

If you want to go down this route it would be worth looking at those designs to see how they do it.

[wolfgangschaltung]

@karst

there’s stereo return jacks on the box, …

Oh, sorry for the oversight, my bad.

…I think the question is if you need a return level control or if you can manage that via the send level and on the send in question.

I’d rather have return level controls so that I can

• reduce the overall amount of an effect quickly for all channels in a live situation
• reduce the amount of noise some older or special effects unit generate even without an input signal

How about a tilt EQ on the master as well, but with different frequencies than on the channels? This way 2 return level controls could be fitted.

[ludvista29]

has our dream day finally arrived?

@brndnwilliams & I have been discussing the “perfect” mixer for electronic production for a long time now.

A small stereo line mixer with 3-6 stereo ins, mutes, and maybe 2 aux sends would be just amazing.

[jlmitch5]

The only thing I see missing is a separate volume for headphones. I had a tape deck that had fixed volume headphones and it was real annoying In practice

[GoneCaving]

By way of example, this is the Schertler Arthur modular mixer:
https://secure.schertler.com/en_IT/arthur

[wolfgangschaltung]

Thanks very much for the size comparison to norns. This is indeed quite larger than I expected.

Could the distance between two norns encoder (which I think is quite ergonomical) serve as a “grid” to place the mixer button in and then see how small it can get?

[karst]

the distance between encoders 2 & 3 on norns is 25mm, which is the vertical distance I have set for the smaller knobs on each channel. the lateral space between each channel works out to more like 40mm (between the small knobs).

personally, I like the visual distinction of having more space between each channel than within each channel. if we’re going with a minimal aesthetic, that visual space is going to be helpful for legibility.

maybe more importantly, I really like having larger radius knobs for the main levels. my reference was the x-large knobs used on the mannequins modules (without the taper) and losing horizontal space will make those really crowded. I worry that doing a knob mixer with tiny mix knobs might kinda suck with extended use.

curious what others think though. I can probably play with dimensions a bit, but I don’t think it’s possible to make the thing dramatically smaller by shaving mm per channel.

[delmerdarion]

This thread got my imagination going - how much mixer could you fit in the size of a grid. Had a lunchtime speed model to visualise it!

• 6 channels with L/R 3.5mm input jacks (left jack normalled to right input for mono)
• Volume, tilt EQ and single send per channel
• Grid style buttons for solo and mute per channel
• Just friends style LED VU meter
• Master output volume and return volume
• L/R 3.5mm output, send and returns jacks
• 2x stereo headphone output jacks

Disclaimer…I have absolutely zero circuit design knowledge - I guess this absolutely would not work with the amount of circuits needed. I guess if it was much deeper and had an external power supply…anyway, it is simply a visualisation of what a Monome style mixer could be in a dream world!

[jlmitch5]

I like this size. This is quite a bit bigger but it’s kind of reminding me of a modern version of these old suitcase/portable mixers…maybe because it is in landscape orientation? (the neve 542 came to mind, there’s some that are tighter). Do we have room for some analog vu meters (only half-kidding, hah)

@karst

maybe more importantly, I really like having larger radius knobs for the main levels. my reference was the x-large knobs used on the mannequins modules and losing horizontal space will make those really crowded . I worry that doing a knob mixer with tiny mix knobs might kinda suck with extended use.

Love those knobs for this purpose. Perfect!

[ludvista29]

20 characters of wowowowowow

[addamm]

@tehn

minimal as in “small” can’t happen magically: the current sketches ate impossible due to mechanical space requirements. 1/4" jacks eat space (ask yourself why norns has a large void at the top… i do value negative space, but the jacks were a major design constraint)

This may be over complicating things but perhaps having the box angled such that the back is taller with pots/components/etc. up at the “top” (near the faceplate) and with jacks at the “bottom” (near the bottom plate). Assuming the components and connections pcbs are separate, one could also design a flat case with more negative space on the front/top.

[Jonathan_Riley]

this is the design I am here for. wow! stunning.

[standup]

What about features? Wouldn’t a list of features needed inform the design?

Level—fader? Knob? Other?
Pan
Auxes? How many?
Is EQ needed?
Stereo inputs could be on a TRS jack if unbalanced
Think about stacked/concentric knobs maybe

[karst]

one more take, but I agree strongly with the people calling for some baseline agreement on features. these sketches are really for nothing more than spurring conversation around features and affordances.

very keen to hear what people think is sorely missing from this approach.

4 mono, 2 stereo
2 stereo aux
simple tilt eq (incl. master channel)
3-way switch for solo/mute

size comp

I’m guessing that the room I’ve squeezed would be lost in first engagement with real me/ee constraints, but I was able to get rid of more space than expected.

[madeofoak]

one thing i’d note about the solo/mute switch is that in performance, a center normal position will make muting/unmuting (or soloing/unsoloing) difficult, since as you unmute (or unsolo) a track you’re pressing the switch in the direction of the solo (or mute), making it fiddly to get a perfectly timed flip back to exactly center. not sure what i’d suggest as the workaround, but that would be enough for me to eliminate the solo and have it be just mute.

[jlmitch5]

I personally prefer the aesthetics of the layout with the full height master channel (the skew on the knobs is kinda off on the new version with the big ones being different rows is off to me). the aspect ratio also feels just more pleasing to me. that’s all just a gut aesthetic reaction not really any rational reason.

I think lining up the knobs so that the master would be lined up to the channels (but still have an additional knob at the top (which would be master), could potentially look nice visually? so it’s like:

MASTER (big knob like the channel volume)
RETURN B
RETURN A
TILT
??? (drive, comp, 2-band eq instead of 1)
PHONE + VOLUME lining up with master knob and switch

[Trebbers]

My 2 cents…

Make it a wedge shape, so you can have both a small footprint and some configurability/non-performance options still available.

Have configurable input/output levels on the back.

Input level leds. Maybe under the level knobs to save space on the panel?

Individual inserts on front panel. Master insert on back.

Maybe have the panel dimensions be letter paper sized so you have more depth, but still same width as a Grid

Tilt/no EQ for individual channels. One or two channels fuller featured 3/4 band EQ.

XLR input with phantom power. More than enough space if the thing is a wedge.

[sensum_clunch]

There are some very nice ideas here. Many pulling in quite different directions, which is to be expected I guess.

This could be impractical but I’m wondering if we can use the 16n as a starting point and turn that into a mixer control with a module that the 16n plugs into. 4 channels, daisychainable so people can pick their size. A mini gain pot for each channel so that levels can be evened out and then just ins and outs.
The module routes inputs to some auxes and can pan but defaults to unity gain, no send and centre pan unless one of the 16n faders is patched in to control that value. So you can specify which controls you want to have at your control.
I guess this is essentially just a load of vcas bundled up but it means that users can really customise their interface and the mixer can match the 16n they have for norns/i2c.
Many of the existing mixers with cv control would do for this if you patched the 16n direct cvs to them but I’m wondering if we can make this smaller and tidier and less expensive?

[bemerritt]

This seems adequately minimal. As you said, it would need to be deeper. But it pretty much would be perfect for what I typically use a mixer for.