#145

I’m not an expert but I’d say that with 5V you’d have very little headroom and designing opamp circuits running on a single rail is a bit of a pain IMO. Powering with USB would work with one of these DC/DC converters but it would limit the max current draw to 400mA.

EDIT: I’m really enjoying this thread. So many great ideas floating around. Funny thing is that I started to design a minimal mixer in grid size, however, due to time constraints I had to put that project on hold.

In the meantime I found a Fostex Hexamix in the trash with broken faders. Fixed it, replaced the faders and had a faceplate made to look nice next to the grid. Still have to build the housing though.

IMG_3254
IMG_32543789×2298 1.22 MB

14 Likes
#146

I think it would operate literally like 8 Crows and likely cost in a similar neighborhood. As noted one could save money by having one PCB instead of 8, one USB connector instead of 8, and save money on jacks by using DB25. It wouldn’t do conversion, or at least it wouldn’t do any more conversion than Crow already does. Or maybe it does do conversion and that’s where all the cost is focused.

I sort of figured throwing a passive summer mode on it would be a way for it to be useful outside of the Norns universe. But maybe that’s a pain to build into it.

Processing brains provided by Norns/scripts, human interface by arc/grid/MIDI controller connected to Norns.

1 Like
#147

This is the closest to something I’d genuinely want coming out of this topic so far. Is there any way to keep closer to the idea of

discussed above? Like is there a way to make the thing entirely from joysticks, without buttons/knobs etc and consider it a monome instrument more than a mixer per-se. Design with “quad mixer” in mind but also the focus of a monome instrument? And then drive it like a monome–a scriptable controller–instead of a mixer–a one-function hardware device?

2 Likes
#148

If we’re sticking with a more traditional analog design one feature that might help differentiate this would be to have all ins and outs selectable to operate at instrument/line/modular level. So if there are 2 sends, for instance, send A could be sent to a modular filter and send B going to a fuzz pedal looking for instrument level (I understand it’s a bit more complicated involving impedances).

I also love the idea of being able to pan/send cv or audio around with joysticks. Maybe not for quad speakers for me personally, but to pan around to different effects, for instance, would be awesome. Like audio on input 1 routed to an external filter input from X and that filter’s fm from Y, and input 2 being a constant DC voltage or lfo also added and routed to the filter fm input from X and resonance from Y or something.

3 Likes
#149

I was super excited about this until it started turning into many crows and i2c and all that extra stuff. my 2 cents on why I wouldn’t just get Mackie or Berhinger (actually I do use one of those currently) is the ideal product doesn’t exist. In 2020, there are a lot of us using multiple stereo voices and there’s no device that isn’t total crud or thousands of dollars that can mix more than a couple of stereo signals. Those that can, have way too much of the extra “features” like fx and huge eq strips, which aren’t necessary to everyone. Adding all the bells and whistles and advanced features make this less focused and more expensive. maybe multiple products can be developed here as someone mentioned above

11 Likes
#150

I like the four joysticks idea, but wonder if half of it could be mix (2 left sticks) with the other two (right) as sends. So you could mix down 2x4 sources, then you send them out to 2x4 destinations.

2 Likes
#151

it would be nice to have the option to cascade several units.
that would be possible by connecting the master and the fx buses…

#152

I guess it is basically then this:


(with sticks)
1 Like
#153

Completely love the form factor and design of the 0-Ctrl. It’s clear that a lot of thought and testing went into the design. I can easily imagine it reconfigured as a mixer. Maybe Tony would be open to a one time group buy for a batch of cases? We’d obviously do a custom front panel.

As far as features, I think a mixer needs some kind of pan/balance controls in the feature set. Hope that’s not left out. Multiple joysticks seem too fiddly/complicated—they’re bulky, expensive , and harder than you think to source good ones.

image
image4032×3024 2.75 MB

3 Likes
#154

It seems there are a few different directions/products being talked about that could maybe be summarized as:

  • A small-ish analog mixer, similar in features to existing small mixers but more focused on electronic music performance and with a ‘nicer/simpler’ design. @karst’s survey above looks like it fits this.
  • A quadraphonic mixer primarily for modular with joysticks and CV control.
  • Some kind of digitally controlled mixer/expander/interface with a lot of I/O that leans on existing controllers etc.
  • I kind of expected there to be a fourth direction of truly minimal (in features) mixers that seemed to crop up a lot in the original thread but maybe there are enough of those available already?
12 Likes
#155

For that smallish analog mixer a few people chimed in that a focus of mixing of stereo signals was an attraction and differentiator from existing small format mixers, and ins/outs at modular levels. I personally wouldn’t buy that but only because I already have a raft of great/functional small format mixers. A stereo focus and built-in modular compatibility/levels would make it a unique thing in the small format mixer marketplace.

#156

For those who are interested in quadraphonic mixers with joysticks. I was doing some research online and came accross this, I have never seen this before:

nTVwD2FosbVT_yBUhDVvR1b60VVWiHpX3uGR-CJzrsZBRAu83qz-3ZxVEbTdS_eVnG0jQsS-V4AbofquLNGRtr20tPiwyquvJ2TF_lx4EoVKoBFQkoyceZyrPhOjV7A

9 Likes
#157

Limitations instead of ideas.
What if you stick to the Eurorack supply chain?

  1. PCB sandwich - base/PCB/aluminium panel construction
  2. One PCB, pretty much as big or small as you like.
  3. Only 3.5mm sockets - mono or stereo - vertical or horizontal - put them anywhere you like. possibly right angled 1/4inch sockets out the back but it’s ugly. 1/4 sockets make it all a lot bigger.
  4. Pots or faders, as many as you like.
  5. Toggle switches are good, momentary pushbuttons are good, latching push switches are harder, I think - I haven’t seen many good/shallow/reliable/cheap ones but I could certainly be wrong. Using momentary push buttons means adding a layer of logic.
  6. Power: how about 5v usb with a DCDC Boost converter to get a bit of headroom? If you limit the number of LEDs and don’t try to be ultra ultra low noise it shouldn’t need more than a couple of hundred mA?

This way ideas can be prototyped and produced pretty cheaply, so weirder ideas (m/s instead of pan, CV control over a few channels, joystick panning, 4+ sends) might be more accessible. All the money goes into the ideas and the electronics.
Maybe make the size compatible with standard Hammond enclosure - replace the lid of the enclosure with your aluminium panel, if people need a more sturdy housing.

22 Likes
#158

re: joysticks
instead of using physical joysticks, wouldn’t be less expensive (and more tweakable bcs one finger controls one pad) something like this:

https://e2d9709a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/futureecircuits/david-tudor-electronics/P1010004.JPG

https://e2d9709a-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites.googlegroups.com/site/futureecircuits/david-tudor-electronics/P1010012_2.JPG

EDIT: sorry the photos do not show up, I put the directs links in plain txt.

4 Likes
#159

that is the dream
right there

1 Like
#160

Is it possible to add an Adat lightpipe output ? :blush: A really small mixer on the desktop for all the machines (Octatrack, Norns, etc), sending 8 individual channels to the main soundcard, that’s my dream… maybe that’s not what this project is about, sorry (Cf. Homer’s car project posted at the beginning of this thread.) But, anyway it’s really fun to watch the whole dev process, mockups etc. :clap:

3 Likes
#161

This is a cool idea, I just worry about touch plate designs functioning properly. Example: earlier Rene and pressure points not responding to touch.

1 Like
#162

now thats a thing of beauty

1 Like
#163

Here is a properly to scale version of my previous idea. I also added independent 1/4in outputs, USB connector, and DC power jack. Hopefully this illustration demonstrates what I was thinking about VU a bit more clearly. Glad to see how many totally different approaches this thread has generated

scaledmixers
scaledmixers1000×1000 57.2 KB

10 Likes
#164

We could ditch the DC jack if we get power through the USB maybe? Does Norns pass power?

The entire top could tiny LED banks, maybe in the same scale as arc. There are 60 channels of I/O in this box. :smiley:

1 Like