Different MIDI in/out devices Norns

[mlogger]

Ok thanks - I didn’t know there was a difference tbh That’s the only cable that came with the polyend. I’ll see if I can dig up / order a new cable and try. The issue here is if I change to a different cable that only sends data, then, the polyend may not power up.

[mlogger]

@zebra @simonvanderveldt

Aha - I found a usb3 dongle plus a AA cable in the cupboard - it works!

Thanks for your help

[simonvanderveldt]

Charge only cables are so annoying…

[xmacex]

A world without them would be, if only ever so slightly, a better one

[tehn]

alarms are going off or me regarding this situation.

polyend is not a low-power device, it’s a computer.

if it needs to be powered via USB to transfer midi to another device, that means the norns is powering the tracker, which seems not good (particularly because USBC can have a higher current spec than norns is ready to serve)

i would highly recommend getting a data/power splitter and powering the tracker from a battery bank or wall supply— or get a current monitor and test how much current the tracker is pulling— or, not all companies post this, because black boxes— see if polyend posted the current requirement

EDIT (FOLLOWUP)

tracker is asking for a 1A supply. that doesn’t mean it uses all of that, but it could.

this is this is not a stable setup and i do not recommend it. with heavy CPU load your norns could spontaneously turn off.

[mlogger]

@tehn

this is this is not a stable setup and i do not recommend it. with heavy CPU load your norns could spontaneously turn of

Ok that’s good to know - yes the Norns is powering the Polyend because there’s no choice - there’s only 1 usb on it. Thanks for the info - will check out splitters. I thought having only 1 usb on the polyend a strange design choice. Separate USB’s would have been much better. Alternatively there is 1/8" midi out jack that connects to a DIN midi dongle which would be a lot safer to use. I would need to buy a DIN to usb dongle to get it to work with Norns.

[RPLKTR]

@tehn

Tracker is asking for a 1A supply. that doesn’t mean it uses all of that, but it could.

Under normal operations Tracker doesn’t draw more than 450mA. We don’t use extended USB 3.0 Power Delivery amperage.

The peak moment for power draw is at the device’s power on. We’re bundling a 1A power supply with Tracker to give ourselves some headroom. Since we don’t manufacture power banks we recommend fast-charging power banks as the smaller ones which should theoretically be 5V 1A capable often aren’t even close.

[tehn]

that’s good to hear, and impressive the device only draws 450mA.

that’s within spec, so provided you’re not using several other high-power USB devices on norns, this could work.

however, i’d highly recommend powering it separately and just using a usb-midi converter.

[TheTechnobear]

Presumably you could also use a powered usb hub in between norns and tracker. (*)

this is an approach I use on things like Organelle when I want to plug in power hungry devices , as I don’t have a power/data splitter

————
Many powered hubs can deliver a lot of amps - but obviously check yours !

[MUNINN]

is there by any chance that is possible to fix this bug and show all the available midi ports?
i’ve got a uc33 that is capable to act as a midi interface, but only on its second port. would be nice having a controller and a midi- usb interface in the same box, actually…

[dan_derks]

@MUNINN

show all the available midi ports

16 vports comin’ up

PMAP autosave + 16 MIDI vports

re: the double-port devices, there was some debugging info requested which i couldn’t find reported back:

@okyeron

it might be worth looking at lsusb -v to see how the devices are presenting. Then also if the second device is showing up in ls /dev/snd/

if you can add these details, that’d be

[simonvanderveldt]

This should already work. Are you using a vanilla norms? Which software version?

[MUNINN]

I’m using a fates running the latest update. Just tried to Connect the uc, seems to see only the first port

[simonvanderveldt]

Probably best to report it on the fates repo on GitHub or the fates topic here then.

[MUNINN]

I will do! Think i’vedzone it months ago and this feature wasnt available actually.

[MUNINN]

ok so update!
i was talking with @okyeron about this thing of the uc33 and he told me to post here.
so after ssh into fates i did run :

aconnect -l
client 0: ‘System’ [type=kernel]
0 'Timer ’
1 'Announce ’
Connecting To: 128:0
client 14: ‘Midi Through’ [type=kernel]
0 ‘Midi Through Port-0’
client 20: ‘UC-33 USB MIDI Controller’ [type=kernel,card=1]
0 'UC-33 USB MIDI Controller MIDI ’
1 'UC-33 USB MIDI Controller MIDI ’
client 129: ‘Client-129’ [type=user,pid=471]
0 'Virtual RawMIDI ’

amidi -l
Dir Device Name
IO hw:1,0,0 UC-33 USB MIDI Controller MIDI
I hw:1,0,1 UC-33 USB MIDI Controller MIDI

while the uc 33 was plugged in norns. as he assumed from amidi, the uc 33 has multiple different ports but somehow norns don’t know what to do with them.
can you guys help?
i feel is doable!
please don’t let me buy a stupid usb to midi box

[okyeron]

FWIW here’s @MUNINN’s output from lsusb -v

lsusb -v

Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Couldn’t open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 9 Hub
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x1d6b Linux Foundation
idProduct 0x0002 2.0 root hub
bcdDevice 4.19
iManufacturer 3
iProduct 2
iSerial 1
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 0x0019
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0xe0
Self Powered
Remote Wakeup
MaxPower 0mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 1
bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
bInterfaceSubClass 0
bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed (or root) hub
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 3
Transfer Type Interrupt
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes
bInterval 12

Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Couldn’t open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 3.00
bDeviceClass 9 Hub
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 3
bMaxPacketSize0 9
idVendor 0x1d6b Linux Foundation
idProduct 0x0003 3.0 root hub
bcdDevice 4.19
iManufacturer 3
iProduct 2
iSerial 1
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 0x001f
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0xe0
Self Powered
Remote Wakeup
MaxPower 0mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 1
bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
bInterfaceSubClass 0
bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed (or root) hub
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 3
Transfer Type Interrupt
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes
bInterval 12
bMaxBurst 0

Bus 001 Device 003: ID 0a4d:00f5 Evolution Electronics, Ltd UC-33e MIDI Controller
Couldn’t open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 1.00
bDeviceClass 0
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 0
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x0a4d Evolution Electronics, Ltd
idProduct 0x00f5 UC-33e MIDI Controller
bcdDevice 1.01
iManufacturer 1
iProduct 2
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 0x0075
bNumInterfaces 2
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 3
bmAttributes 0xc0
Self Powered
MaxPower 250mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 0
bInterfaceClass 1 Audio
bInterfaceSubClass 1 Control Device
bInterfaceProtocol 0
iInterface 0
AudioControl Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER)
bcdADC 1.00
wTotalLength 0x0009
bInCollection 1
baInterfaceNr(0) 1
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 1
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 2
bInterfaceClass 1 Audio
bInterfaceSubClass 3 MIDI Streaming
bInterfaceProtocol 0
iInterface 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 1 (HEADER)
bcdADC 1.00
wTotalLength 0x0041
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 6
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 2 (MIDI_IN_JACK)
bJackType 1 Embedded
bJackID 1
iJack 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 6
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 2 (MIDI_IN_JACK)
bJackType 2 External
bJackID 2
iJack 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 6
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 2 (MIDI_IN_JACK)
bJackType 2 External
bJackID 5
iJack 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 3 (MIDI_OUT_JACK)
bJackType 1 Embedded
bJackID 3
bNrInputPins 1
baSourceID( 0) 2
BaSourcePin( 0) 1
iJack 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 3 (MIDI_OUT_JACK)
bJackType 1 Embedded
bJackID 6
bNrInputPins 1
baSourceID( 0) 5
BaSourcePin( 0) 1
iJack 0
MIDIStreaming Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 36
bDescriptorSubtype 3 (MIDI_OUT_JACK)
bJackType 2 External
bJackID 4
bNrInputPins 1
baSourceID( 0) 1
BaSourcePin( 0) 1
iJack 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
bInterval 0
bRefresh 0
bSynchAddress 0
MIDIStreaming Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 6
bDescriptorType 37
bDescriptorSubtype 1 (GENERAL)
bNumEmbMIDIJack 2
baAssocJackID( 0) 3
baAssocJackID( 1) 6
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT
bmAttributes 2
Transfer Type Bulk
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
bInterval 0
bRefresh 0
bSynchAddress 0
MIDIStreaming Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 5
bDescriptorType 37
bDescriptorSubtype 1 (GENERAL)
bNumEmbMIDIJack 1
baAssocJackID( 0) 1

Bus 001 Device 002: ID 2109:3431 VIA Labs, Inc. Hub
Couldn’t open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.10
bDeviceClass 9 Hub
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x2109 VIA Labs, Inc.
idProduct 0x3431 Hub
bcdDevice 4.21
iManufacturer 0
iProduct 1
iSerial 0
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 0x0019
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0xe0
Self Powered
Remote Wakeup
MaxPower 100mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 1
bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
bInterfaceSubClass 0
bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed (or root) hub
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 3
Transfer Type Interrupt
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0001 1x 1 bytes
bInterval 12

Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Couldn’t open device, some information will be missing
Device Descriptor:
bLength 18
bDescriptorType 1
bcdUSB 2.00
bDeviceClass 9 Hub
bDeviceSubClass 0
bDeviceProtocol 1 Single TT
bMaxPacketSize0 64
idVendor 0x1d6b Linux Foundation
idProduct 0x0002 2.0 root hub
bcdDevice 4.19
iManufacturer 3
iProduct 2
iSerial 1
bNumConfigurations 1
Configuration Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 2
wTotalLength 0x0019
bNumInterfaces 1
bConfigurationValue 1
iConfiguration 0
bmAttributes 0xe0
Self Powered
Remote Wakeup
MaxPower 0mA
Interface Descriptor:
bLength 9
bDescriptorType 4
bInterfaceNumber 0
bAlternateSetting 0
bNumEndpoints 1
bInterfaceClass 9 Hub
bInterfaceSubClass 0
bInterfaceProtocol 0 Full speed (or root) hub
iInterface 0
Endpoint Descriptor:
bLength 7
bDescriptorType 5
bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
bmAttributes 3
Transfer Type Interrupt
Synch Type None
Usage Type Data
wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes
bInterval 12

[simonvanderveldt]

What does cat /proc/asound/cards show?
And assuming card0 is the builtin soundcard, what do cat /proc/asound/card1/id (just to check it’s the correct sound card/your MIDI device) and cat /proc/asound/card1/midi0 show?

[MUNINN]

don’t have any clue what you are asking me… please treat me as a professional noob hahahahah
what do i have to ssh to, i assume, navigate to the location you’re asking me?
edit:
shows up this
cat /proc/asound/cards
0 [sndrpiproto ]: snd_rpi_proto - snd_rpi_proto
snd_rpi_proto
1 [Controller ]: USB-Audio - UC-33 USB MIDI Controller
Evolution Electronics Ltd. UC-33 USB MIDI Controller at usb-0000:01:00.0-1.1, f

[simonvanderveldt]

Just do the same thing as you did for the info you posted here Different MIDI in/out devices Norns

Once you’re connected to norns over SSH run cat /proc/asound/card1/id and cat /proc/asound/card1/midi0 and post the output here.