Analog tape loops experiment with tapedeck and walkman :

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Quick test as proof of concept:
Looped sample into MI Ears. Envelope follower + CV offset into VCA. Offset reduced gradually. Mixed in some noise via ringmod, added a bit of saturation …

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Inserting treatments into a delay chain could be a wider topic than just emulating tape failing… One of my fave things to do is to take a very faithful delay with no feedback and send it into a gain and whatever treatments before feeding back into the delay.

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Sounds cool!

Idea: Use a field recording into Ears to trigger the envelope follower, and use this signal to either modulate the delay lines signal timbre or amplitude, also mix in a little bit of the field recording so you get cumulative noise mixed in. I might try that myself and see what gives.

I made a delay in Reaktor (based on @trickyflemming Tape Delay) that I built purposefully to get cumulative degradation type tones on delay loops. Random modulation (including tiny amounts of white noise), eq’ing and sample rate modulation got some really interesting results. I’ts definitely something I’d like to explore more with eurorack.

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Hi all,
I’ve written a bit about my practice here just a few minutes ago. Sorry about the delay answering something concerning me :relaxed:

If you want to know more about it just write me here or there, I’ll be glad to answer.

:black_heart::loop:

Ciao!

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Nice! Most of the credit on that goes to NI, as it’s built around a Core macro called “Tape-ish Delay”. I only really made the panel and set the control ranges. The VHS Audio Degradation Suite would be another really good starting point for building something like this (maybe toss this in a feedback path? Could be cool): https://www.native-instruments.com/en/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/11003/

I wish I had some spare development time at the moment, as I think that Norns would be a perfect platform for building a loop degrader. Here are some random DSP ideas:

  • SuperCollider’s Dust would be a perfect starting point. It creates random impulses with random amplitude (unipolar or bipolar) with a Density control. I imagine that this could be used as a “Volatility” control. Whenever a trigger is fired, a certain effect could be applied to the running loop. The depth/length of the effect could be determined by impulse height, or maybe some other running random parameter.
  • For Basinski style disintegration, it’s all about taking stuff away, not adding. Two primary transformations that I would look at would be random zero-resonance band-pass filtering and waveset removal. Wavesets would be a bit too precise, as actual tape would not care about zero-crossings, but it might be faster/cleaner to implement if you don’t want clicks or an interpolated dropout sound. I added a variable waveset drop control to Dent for this type of effect, and it does sound similar to some of the artifacts on The Disintegration Loops.
  • There could be multiple modes of degradation instead of just focusing on analog tape concepts. Like the videos that @oot and @csboling posted above, there are great artifacts that appear through things like repeated mp3 encoding/decoding. I’m not sure if there’s a codec-style uGen in SuperCollider or its plugins, but you could cheat an mp3 sound using SuperCollider’s PV uGens. In SpecOps, the “mp3ify” effect is done by performing an FFT and then using a bitcrusher to reduce the precision of each bin.
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Ah nice stuff!

Funnily enough the VHS Degradation Suite that you mention has my Tape Mate ensemble built in, and for that I did use an impulse generator for the Flutter section of the Wow+Flutter :+1:

After hearing Eno’s Discrete Music I was looking to build a non-synchronized dual/three channel looper, using TapeMate for the cumulative degradation side of things.

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That’s hilarious! I use Tape Mate a lot, and I just didn’t put 2 and 2 together with your username. I’ve also used Patina and Guillotine. Great stuff. Gotta love how the Reaktor Library is built upon so much collaboration.

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Check this out from 21:19 — You’ll hear somebody you might now (William B. :wink: ) …
The rest of the podcast is pretty cool too!

Mark Phillips: After it went around and around for 20 minutes or so, the dust started to fall off and then it sounded like this. All the notes are still there, but the tails –
Jad Abumrad: Are getting shorter.
Mark Phillips: Yeah. That’s what would always happen.
William Basinski: The sustains and decays of the notes seemed to fall away like from the back moving backwards, backwards.
Mark Phillips: It gets shorter and shorter. Instead of being held for four seconds, it’s held for three seconds, two seconds. Finally, you just really hear –
William Basinski: Like the attacks and the accents.
Mark Phillips: Just the beginnings of the notes. Only the beginning.
William Basinski: Those seem to hold on.
Mark Phillips: At least for a little while.

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I guess since we’re discussing emulating disintegration, one free FFT plugin I can recommend is DtBlkFx. The spectral contrast and threshold modes are pretty similar in sound to the warble of those Napster era .mp3’s.

This made me think about more “authentic” ways to create these types of artifacts in real time. Perhaps one could run the audio through a Skype call, perhaps several connected in a chain? I’m speculating but the idea really excites me…

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I’ve been hacking in this space for a long time. I think that there are a few different processes to examine:

  1. tape loop
  2. recording to a tape loop with the erase head defeated
  3. conventional live looping
  4. Dub-style “mixer send to itself” style delay and looping, shimmer

==

  1. tape loop is easy to understand: you generally record a longer piece and cut and loop it to an arbitrary length. alternately this can be emulated in many ways with digital audio. Basinski’s DL is this process + the tape destroying itself with repetition (plus a pretty aggressive comp/limiter and digital reverb)

  2. is frippertronics - a loop of tape runs through a tape machine with a defeated (or partially defeated) erase head. Sound on sound recording is done. The dynamics of the tape and record head control the blending of new sounds with sound on tape… allowing the player to often soften high end or transients on already recorded material with what is being recorded now.

  3. Live looping really got off the ground with the Oberheim EchoPlex IV and the OG Lexicon JamMan in the mid 90s and then later became ubiquitous with the Line6 DL4 and Boss Loopstation pedals. These devices allowed a foot tap to define the beginning and the end of a loop buffer that a player could record into and keep recording into. The blending of previous and newly recorded audio was a simple digital sum and there was no easy way to process audio in the feedback loop (see below) as the entire process was done within a single box. This did enable rhythmically synchronized loops, though, and some boxes included midi sync and trigger quantization. Both of these devices offered very long loops compared to what came previously as well.

  4. This basis of this technique was used in some frippertronic style looping, but primarily in dub production. Basically, you use a mixer send to route audio to a delay or even a looper, with the feedback on the delay or looper set to 0%. Then route the audio out of the delay looper into a track on your mixer and use the send control on THAT track as your feedback control for the delay or loop. This enables you to place other audio processes in the feedback path, including eq, delay, or other processes. Brian Eno and Daniel Llanois used this technique and variants of it to great effect by adding an up-octave pitch shift into the feedback path, creating their famous Shimmer effect.

Ableton Live and Augustus Loop opened up this kind (#4) of functionality within a DAW by including the ability to route the feedback of a looper process out and back into the looper. Bitiwg enables this by including a Delay plugin that has a feedback fx patch point.

My process now is to do just this with Bitwig, creating a delay-1 program with Augustus Loop in the feedback fx, with feedback in the AL plugin set to 0%. This enables me to insert any audio processing in the loop that I want, including routing audio out to a 3-head tape unit with record monitoring enabled and back into the DAW in the feedback loop, which provides natural tape generation/degradation and pitch modulation on each replay of the loop buffer. There are a lot of ways to process the loop buffer in this implementation, including setting up a random modulator attached to a gain control that can cut audio out of the running loop, Disintegration Loops style. I’ve also set up a toggle macro control that allows the freezing of a loop by putting feedback within Augustus Loop to 100% and turning it down to 0% in the Bitwig Delay-1, thus “pausing” the degradation.

It is also really satisfying to build “shimmer” effects using the same workflow. Eventide’s h910 plugin provides a very close replica of the hardware that Eno used on his first recordings with the effect and the H3000 Factory plugin provides a satisfactory version of what was used on later recordings. The variety of sounds that you can get with these feedback processes is pretty amazing… on Blue Day, for instance a tiny Casio calculator synth produced enormous angelic washes of sound.

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Goodhertz’s Lossy plugin is excellent for this work as well. They spend a lot of time and energy emulating various sources of quantization, bit reduction, filtering and jitter.

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I guess if you’re talking Napster era, the “authentic” audio stream would be RealAudio. Bonus points if your stream goes via a dial-up modem.

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I think this kinda qualifies: I once tried a very low-rent (and pretty silly) Lucier experiment/impersonation where I put a song clip that I particularly hated into Garageband, and then played it back through the laptop’s speakers while recording with the internal microphone (recording track unmonitored to prevent feedback, of course). I then rinsed and repeated until it sounded less bad.

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This thread made me check out your music and it’s lovely! Then I checked and found out we both live in Ravenna (I’m a new Ravennate though, only been here a couple of years)!!

I use my DOD-DFX9 for this kind of thing. It’s digital but you can tweak the internal trimpots to extend the range of the delay and feedback knobs, and when pushed it creates some really lovely disintegration. Not a whole lot of buffer time though, maybe 1.5s or so.

Tangentially related, I’m still on the hunt for a delay with a coarse (octave) time switch that will pitch shift a frozen buffer, like the lexicon primetime. Heard oto BIM might do it but haven’t confirmed. TimeFactor does it but only in looper mode and the algorithm sounds kinda crappy. Any other suggestions?

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The new Chase Bliss Mood this (and loads of other cool stuff to boot) :+1:

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Ah yeah, that looks so good! Wonder if they’ll bring out the Blooper as well. That seemed to have all the glitchy window scanning that I like from my TF.

Further to my previous post and this, I’m having lots of fun on a rainy weekend doing just this in Audiomulch…

… putting basic contraptions in a delay feed with very mild fx, e.g. EQ, noise gate/expander, compressor, plus also abruptly jumping the (digital) delay length from time to time to force skips and clicks.

Just realised I can do this with an 808 loop and contribute to this week’s Disquiet Junto. :smiley:

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I’m really looking forward to Blooper for these kind of things. It has several destructive effects that let you mess up your loops.

While you can make the delay effect on the left channel of MOOD fade away over time and add grit by lowering the clock, I generally would not buy it for “classic” looping purposes.