#32

i use small cymbals on most of the drums - i sometimes use a mid tom and if i stack two splashes on it, i get a nice short hi hat sound. drum contact gets a kind of cool ultra short dead tom sound as well.

putting small cymbals upside down can have cool results as well, i’ll set them up to interfere with each other, or put larger cymbals on my floor tom. lots of sound manipulation possibilities there, you can steady the cymbal with your hand in the middle and bow it to get both drumhead and cymbal sound, i’ve gotten wild pitch bends by smacking just outside the bell with a mallet while applying pressure with the bell.

i have all sorts of shakers and bells i like putting on drums - dried goat claws, dried nut/seed shakers, indian dancing bells. i’ve gotten good results putting little drums on my snare, i have a little tamborim that works especially well. kalimbas can actually resonate through the drum which is super cool.

there’s also just so much to be said for using technique and sticks for different sounds, i have these worn out plastic rutes that are great for brush sounds when i want to use something closer to stock technique. traditional brushes are extremely underrated i think. i’ll use dead strokes to get muted sounds without muting a drum, or choke up or back on the stick and strike different spots on a drum for different sounds.

i like stacking cymbals on cymbals, right side up and upside down. i never use top felts or wing nuts so it’s easy to do this stuff in the moment and keep things modular. i grew to love the sound of cheap beginner model cymbals, when you tape them down you get some interesting sounds, and when they break - which they will - they only sound cooler.

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#33

Oh the tambourine thing is cool, i should try that!

I can also recommend using small pine tree branches either as whiskers or ontop of cymbals. I never tried using bells, but singing bowls with a mallet on a snare also does some cool noisy textures.

In the rehearsal space of my band we have a huge stack of metal where we drill holes in and stack them under cymbals (get that Einstürzende Neubauten going). Its cheaper then buying a lot of cymbals and breaking them. It also has a cool vibe to have some clean and dry Istanbul xist together with huge clapstacks of metal. Really wide dynamics in terms of high sounds😎

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#34

I live by the Glenn Kotche one way shaker trick

And I love this Morf Beats Ring made from diamond plate on my snare or floor tom

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#35

I don’t have any real experience as a drummer minus two semesters of percussion methods in college but I have had many opportunities to record drum kits. At this point I feel like I have tried all of the possible mic’ing techniques although not at the same time like some of the super big studios. Thought I’d share my biggest take aways.

  1. Stereo overheads aren’t always your friend. Matter of fact IMO they make the sound too wide to get something that really works in most situations.

  2. Mono is cool. At this point I prefer the overheads in mono but I also can’t live without a front of kick mic. Actually for the sound of the kit as a whole I prefer it. Overheads typically sound like cymbals with a thin snare sound which is great if you have the meat elsewhere and that’s why I couple it with front of kit mic. That mono mic set just above the kick aimed at the whole kit from 2-4 feet away is my jam-lots of drum in the sound and a realistic overall balance between drum/cymbal.

  3. Gotta have the dick mic. Okay, that was vulgar but it’s how I first heard it. Literally as the name implies you want to aim this at the drummers crotch - right over the kick drum all up in the kit aimed T snare/crotch. No fancy mic required, sm57 does wonders in this application. You’re left with a great sounding snare with no woof from the kick, just clicky ticky, with some decent cymbal sound. I love compressing the life out of this mic too. It’s got lots of “click” to the sound which help give definition to that primarily mono sound.

  4. If you’re working in a tight space don’t even try to aim your room mics at the kit-it’s going to be a phase-y mess if so. Set up a stereo pair and aim them at a wall, especially if you’ve got a hard reflective surface in the room. Hell, bring a mirror in the room and aim them at that. Like literally close mic the wall. The room mics are supposed to be the sound of the room and we’ve already captured direct and relatively direct sounds so really we just need the reflections. I’d even try this technique in a larger space if I didn’t feel like the phase was working for me. I also do it up in stereo because it’s time to capture some natural width to add to my drum sound.

Beyond that there’s a few other things I do. Always top/bottom mics on snare as well in/out mics on kick if I can afford the extra channel on a session. I also use a short verb to create more width and add the synthetic sizzle, most of the time a little bit always works. Wow, that was a counter intuitive sentence. I’m a big fan of parallel compression to get that compressed feel without squashing transients as well as trying to primarily compress the sound as a whole opposed to individual elements.

Hope this helps add to the conversation. I know most of this thread has been about technique and strategies for performance on drums but if you’re doing all that do you really have time to fool with a bunch of drum mics?! Hope I gave some tools to use if the situation comes up.

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#36

I’ve gotten surprisingly good results with an sm57 on kick lately, though admittedly ran through a Pultec clone to boost ~60hz and cut out a lot of the high frequency stuff. but with a little bit of coaxing can sound just as big and fat as one of those expensive specialized kick mics

#37

Most of my creative playings ends up on an augmented snare (pics, blog), but I still do plenty of “regular” drum practice and improvements.

I have more than a few “chargers” from Steve Hubback which are great for putting on drums and using like bells/chimes/etc…:

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These days I’m a big fan of a suuper muted/dry snare, by putting a couple crotales on the drum. I always used to lean towards a really sustaining/open sounding snare, but for more detailed/snappy playing, I’ve drifted towards a dryer sound, and the crotales are a decent (if expensive) way to get to that sound.

On a more regular practice note, I’ve been on the hunt for some new stuff to practice/expand on. So curious what kinds of books/vids folks have been into lately.

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#38

Does anybody have any insights on drumheads with the absolute utmost texture? I’ve always used Remo Coated Ambassador heads, and I do like them quite a bit, as they have quite a nice scratch to them. But I find myself wanting even more texture to do some recording with brushes. The typical online resources have not yielded much info, and my drummer network is also coming up blank.

Has anyone sought out scratchier snare heads before? Should I consider attempting to modify my current heads somehow to add more texture? I hear tell that jazz heads are thinner and more responsive, so perhaps that is something to consider.

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#39

Aquarian modern vintage has a nice texture.

Mic and positioning make a big difference. How do you plan to record brushes?

A pencil condenser like a KM84 or AKG 460b (or brighter 451) or Oktava mk12 or high sensitivity dynamic like a Beyer M201 will change detail dramatically.

One of my favorite all around snare mics is an e22s, which has more proximity effect and low end capture, but for pure detail I’d go with a pencil and get texture through overhead(s) brought close, try to get depth that way with an LDC like an 87 (a single LDC would be the classic choice) or Coles etc if you want a thicker shell sound and smoother cymbals.

If you want an airy sound, then two pencil mics in ORTF or DIN is a good option.

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#40

I would like to submit this series for consideration…always cracks me up

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#41

I am using a pair of KM184s overhead (semi-recorderman/Glyn Johns style), and still toying with a couple of options out in front of the kit. I have actually had great success pairing the above with a radio shack PZM a few feet in front of the kick, but it’s an antique and is becoming pretty flaky, unfortunately.

Your comments makes me think I simply need to lower the overheads and crank the preamp a bit more. Maybe I’ve had too much room in the equation.

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#42

i’m gonna second @Joseph‘s recommendation of the aquarians - i actually don’t use them because of how present the texture is. and it doesn’t wear off or break in much that i can tell. lots of jazz drummers love these heads for brushes.

i actually like having to pull the sound out a little - i guess it works for my brush technique? so i stick with coated ambassadors.

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#43

That’s cool. So you have some nice mics to play with. I often use over the shoulder recorder man kind of arrangement with Coles, also trying to center the kick a little more. But I always do it by ear to get the cymbal vs shell balance right (which obviously changes with the cymbal set up), not by precise distance.

For bushes, yeah, I tend to mic OH closer than I otherwise would. But I don’t mic the snare that close. I don’t like that sound, I prefer more dimensionality and it’s easier to mix with other mics too because of inverse-square law. For this reason I tend to select spot mics that have really good off-axis response because I end up with more cymbals in the close mics.

What options are you playing with in front of the kit?

You should try everything you have. If you have an LDC I would try that as a mono overhead (and maybe use 184s for stereo room in front), since that is kind of a classic sound with snare and “foot” mic.

Or you could try something like this

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In any case, try to get the snare sounding as good as possible in the overheads before you even mess with snare mic (more for detail/reinforcement). Check in mono. Seems like you know all this already, but just to reiterate.

For a room mic I tend to put it where it sounds best on its own, which more often than not is along the diagonal axis of the kit maybe 10-15 feet away. Sometimes I just throw up an 87 in omni.

M160s tend to sound good on ride I find.

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#44

Thank you! That is fantastic advice, and very well timed. I know a little bit, but foremost is how much I have yet to learn. It’s just damn fun to experiment. I am very much appreciative and will (attempt to) put that advice into play over the next few days. I’m definitely an admirer of the Van Gelder sound. Really hot take there, I know.

I currently have a pretty unorthodox mic locker built up over the years. My favorites are the KM184s, but I also have an assortment of others, ranging from my janky PZM (second favorite - but better at max volume), and a thrift store find or two, an old ElectroVoice RE-10, a crappy beyerdynamic m422 (used to grab snare and kick at once), an Oktava MC12, a 57 (of course) and a Townsend Sphere. No true LDCs in the mix.

I’ve actually not had much success with the Sphere (it’s the one that’s been out in front of the kit), despite high hopes, so unless it starts earning its keep it may be headed to another home soon.

Thanks again to everyone for the help.

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#45

Cool. Yes, the main thing is to experiment a lot, because there are so many variables.
Like people often say don’t use fig-8 mics when you don’t want too much room, but true fig-8 ribbon mics have very deep side nulls, much more so than cardioid. So you can null really loud things from across the room. Same with low ceilings and early reflections. They can make mics you would normally use not sound so good and make mics you wouldn’t think would work well work better simply because they have a smoother or darker response. It really just depends on the room and placement what works or not.

Try miking the drum shell too.

I think it’s always good to throw random mics up for the controlled bleed sound heard on 60s records (like from a vocal or horn mic), which brings the excitement. Drummers tend to like that sound, for good reason.

I really like the RE-10. For live vocals, and can get a nice sound on silverface or Ampeg VT amps and sometimes rock snare, generally a 70s thing.

I often see the omni 635a recommended by those with experience for room mic, mono drum mic and amps, but I haven’t used it myself. I have heard room mic recordings and it can certainly sound good in that role.

The best 57 I’ve heard is the TAB transformer mod. Makes the response a bit fuller and less edgy. There are those who swear by the Unidyne 57s but I think the TAB has the most resolution.

Have you tried putting the Sphere down low, maybe 6 feet back from the kick? Sometimes you can get a nice depth/bloom that way. Useful for slower tempo songs.

A Beyer M88 can sound really impactful on kick, bass cab, and pretty detailed condenser-like on vocals. You have to get the pop shield though.

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#46

A little pricey but these are amazing.

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#47

Just came across this guy’s work - really inspiring:

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#48

That’s really badass!

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#49

another aspect to consider is how tight the snares are (maybe tighter) as well as how tight the heads are (maybe tuned tighter) metal shell will be brighter also dig the double wide snares… sounds fun :slightly_smiling_face:

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#50

I thought some of you might enjoy Sean Meehan’s work. All acoustic drums but tonally a lot in common with minimal electronics.

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#51

Hi, love this line of discussion.
Thru a lag in the communication process, I found out late in the process that we would be responsible for the music licensing in a video of our dance company.
We’ve been working with this material using 60s & 70s soul music and I’ve been toying with ways of creating original music to bring some of that vibe. Anyway, I had to create an entirely new sound track for an already shot and edited piece. Fortunately since I did the original sound design, I had the timeline and tempo map already laid out.
I had this great drummer come in and trace the outlines of the songs one by one. Honestly with more time I would have done more, but I’m pretty happy with the results.
Drums were recorded with 3 mics, D112 on the kick, Advanced Audio U67 type and Coles 4038 ribbon at a distance of about 4 feet pointed at the kit. The thing I was going for was a variety of vintage-y drum tones from section to section using different combos of saturation, compression, EQ and ambience with different mic combos.
The encoding of the audio for the video is pretty awful, but let me know what you guys think. The choreography is by my wife Staycee Pearl. Our material is the first half.

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