Drums

[theskyis256k]

oh man im so glad this thread exists. It’s been 1 month into my new drums exploration. got an acoustic set at home and have been learning to play. loving it. learning a ton everyday about drums and how to set them up and tune them and play them. it’s wonderful

[reallyok]

i fixed up a drum at work that had maybe been dropped - i’ve seen this happen, where the rim doesn’t always line right up with the collar of the head.

slowly tensioning the head is good - you can also keep an eye on it as you tune it up and pull the rim back into round (or whatever it is!) as you go. it might be okay as-is, these types of hoops can warp a little but they’re easy enough to bend back in place.

as it’s a large gong drum, you probably won’t be tuning it too high. if you’re planning on playing lots of rim shots or playing on the rims of the drum, you could end up wanting spacers or something like that. wood hoops are a good idea if all else fails. one thing to keep in mind is you may need to buy different lugs as well, or use lug spacers to make sure the lugs stick out further from the shell. the claws you use with wood hoops mean your tuning rods stick out further than the current construction is expecting.

[samuel_wade]

Check out Drums – Learning as well, if you haven’t.

[theskyis256k]

also just wanted to throw this in here:
i remember when i started getting into some boom bap stuff on MPC i was looking for some drum beat arrangement inspiration and found this video which was very informative. at the time i thought it was interesting the fact they played on a real kit but i was mainly interested in the patterns.|

flash forward to today where i am playing and actively learning drumming and i find it even more useful and inspiring

10 Lofi Drum Patterns Every Producer Should Use (Free Sample Pack)

[eblomquist]

Not sure if this is the right place for this question.

I’m wondering if anyone has experience with mic’ing weird acoustic drum conglomerations and might be willing to have a conversation about it.

I’ve been putting together a somewhat odd drum kit and have a handful of ok mics, and am looking for some ideas on how to mic it in a minimal but reasonably balanced way…

It could be offline or in a separate thread. I’m not trying to be private but I also don’t want to jam up this or any other thread…

Thanks!

Ed

EDIT: here’s some pix to help visualize the kit…

[Claude]

My first thought would be to try to do it with one mic. That’s quite an array, so really experiment with mic placement. Find a mic location that works and document it (could be a piece of tape on the floor). Now, record yourself and listen back - some things will be quieter than you would like, can you adjust your technique to make those elements sit better? Self-mixing, we could call that.

Beyond that, and particularly given the breadth of your rig, spot mics might be in order. Here, I imagine, similar experimenting would be ideal. Phase-cancellation would be a concern, but likely one you could thwart with mic placement and/or waveform aligning of the mic tracks in the DAW, after tracking. Overdubbing those elements would eliminate the phase concerns.

All that said, there are proven techniques that would be fun too:

Five Techniques for Stereo Miking Drums

Much has been written on the topic, this page just came up with a quick search.

My very personal preference, at the moment, for recording my much simpler drum set is single mic, mono, from out front. I just want my drums to sound like they do know the room, really. Through experimenting I started hitting my snare harder, and raised my cymbles higher to get a bit more balance in the single mic, you might find physically moving some elements helpful as well.

Of course processing is chef’s preference, I do minimal EQ (high pass filter for subsonic rumble, possible bass drum management, and at most a DB of wide curve boosting the mids) and compression which gives a decent amount of options.

Be sure and post a sample when you get something you are happy with!

[eblomquist]

Thanks so much for all these insights and ideas! Lots to experiment with

One thing I was wondering about is whether it makes sense to try to put mics on either side of the kit not above but lower to try to get less cymbals and more drums.

I’ll post some sounds.

[abalone]

[glia]

just discovered this artist and like many things about his approach to drumming

Mikel Patrick Avery : SORE THUMB (interview)

Mikel Patrick Avery shows us his melodic #drummer chops on "Jet Song" #live #music #concert

there’s something about the playing that embodies understated precision and sensitivity…no wasted bits

something i aspire to but will likely never achieve (since it takes regular practice)

Mikel Patrick Avery: Music for 1/2 Size Piano : Alexis Lombre

[Rodrigo]

Kind of a random question, but does anyone know what the typical/standard bolt/screw size is for floor tom mounts? (as in, the screws that go inside the drum and hold the mount itself to the drum)

I want to order some longer ones for mine, but as far as I can tell they are imperial sizes and I only have metric stuff on hand to compare with.

It’s this sort of thing:

I imagine it’s the same as other typical drum screws/bolts, but again, imperial, so tricky to find something to test/compare with locally.

edit:
Turns out it is metric. M5! I just don’t keep that size on hand.

[eblomquist]

Just found this video of the great Chris Cutler from Henry Cow among other projects.

Roulette TV: Chris Cutler

Amazing…

[crunchydrums]

Immediate thought is could totally see a fruitful collaboration between your style and Mikel’s.

Anyone have any idea about his drum synth? Looks DIY, but haven’t seen anything like it and wouldn’t really know what it compares to or if it’s based off a known circuit? Sounds really nice.

[G4B3]

Shoutout to @andrewhuang’s recent video

Super interesting discussion about recreating drum and bass breakbeats

How Russell became a live breakbeat machine

[samuel_wade]

Nice to actually hear him play here! I appreciate wanting to precisely recreate the original sound, but when I’ve seen his videos elsewhere, it’s ended up sounding a bit as if it’s just the record, with his own drums muted. (I’m not suggesting that’s actually the case—it’s not as if it’d be that much easier anyway ….)

Edit on May 8: Great Richard Spaven performance on Loyle Carner’s latest:

- YouTube

Edit on Oct 29: New Spaven album, and the ban on consecutive replies really should time out after three months or something.

Sole Subject by Richard Spaven

[billw]

I’ve been intrigued for years with having my edrums output chromatically coherent notes. I started doing this in in the 80’s with an Octopad II and a Casio CZ101.

But something I found early on was just remapping notes to scales, or having pads step through mini sequences or motifs, was inflexible and not much fun to play. What I really wanted was something non-deterministic that let me settle into a flow and be surprised by what I heard.

Even just randomly chosen notes are a lot more fun to play than fixed things. And since I’d usually layer drum sounds in the mix, I’d still have something familiar.

So I started trying to figure out how to create a patch in Max and PD to try to nudge notes towards scales, with some unpredictability. The initial results were fun to play and started to become more interesting. Unfortunately I’m not a great Max programmer and my job bogged things down. Also researching how the scales worked was a chore.

Then it turns out a long time friend had Eventide turn his invention (the SamchillianTipTipTip) into a Eurorack Module (Misha). And simultaneously I was getting interested in modular as well, so I bought a Misha and have been using it to rescale midi in various ways for about 2 yrs.

My setup is basically vdrums or other controllers going into my computer through ableton. The sounds are a mix of VSTs as well as audio ins from my modular via 2 Boredbrain OPTXs. I mix everything using the Midi fighter twister or an Akai midimix.

The midi routing inside Live is a bit complicated, where I can split pads, remap midi, do some random things, play a bass note based on a current chord, as well as go out to Misha and back to Ableton. So I created a bunch of virtual midi buses. And I’m also adding sustain and other CC’s via a dore footpedal interface or my high hat pedal with some other max objects. THis whole part of the setup is a bit of spaghetti and an area I want to do some programming to clean up. But overall, it’s getting close to what I’ve been after playing wise.

An interesting development is an Eventide project manager saw one of my videos and was interested in a new feature I’ve been lobbying for, that would make it easier to play repeated intervals. So I got to show my setup and explain it to him last week. Hopefully the new feature will get implemented. Something cool he told me, is that he did some synclavier programming for Frank Zappa years ago, and Frank was asking for something similar to what I’ve been after!

Anyway, just sharing some of my progress… next up is to scale down to a small mobile rig I can take live. I also need to hone the sounds down to a simpler palette. That’s also tied into the misha feature I’m after as it would make it easier to control the mayhem a bit.

These vids are using an Eraetouch custom template.

Eventide Misha, EraeTouch, Modular and Ableton Live

Misha EraeTouch Three -- starting to work!

There are a lot of other videos on my YT channel that also use Misha or the older max objects, with varying degrees of success.

http://roundingerror.nyc

[billw]

As a diversion, I figured out a way to use an Artiphon Chorda. I bought it on their kickstarter and found it’s just a toy. I’ve been trying to sell it but no one wants it!

But then I tried mapping it to Misha’s interval buttons, like I did for my drums and the ereatouch, and it turned out way cooler than I expected. If I can figure out how to hack the Chorda patches a bit, and change how the bridge strumming works, it could be a great controller.

Misha and an Artiphon Chorda

[karol]

Anyone having a practical experience with Zildjian L80 low volume cymbals and Remo silent stroke drum heads and can share their opinion about them?
My partner and son are learning drums so we got a cheap used electronic drums (Roland TD11kv) and while mesh heads are a big improvement over how I remember the rubber pads felt the cymbals are still kind of meh and my partner is complaining that it feels way different than the acoustic drumset she uses during lessons.
So I was thinking of assembling a basic acoustic drum set consisting of L80 cymbals and drums outfitted with silent stroke heads. But the main questions is are they really that much less loud, that you would be able to let small kid just bang on it without needing to worry both about your kid hearing and neighbours wanting to kill you?

[billw]

Are you in a house or apartment? Depends on whether you’re trying to minimize noise or vibrations that go through the floors from pedals (or both). BTW, drum forums are loaded with info about this topic (vdrums.com, drumforum.org, reddit…)

IMO, the pads on the TD11kv seem fine. As for the feel compared to real drums? I mean it’s different but it’s OK. And often it could be the pad tension, the stand mount, etc. Mesh pads on a real drum won’t be that different, or quieter. The drums just take up more room and still require buying and installing the sensors and rubber rim pads. A used PD120 would be cheaper and work fine.

In fact one PD120 would be a good first upgrade for your kit. Use it as a snare since so much of learning drums involves snare work. And it might feel better on a regular snare stand than the horizontal tube. Though mine’s on a horizontal tube but with a angle brace under it.

The bass drum pad and HH could also benefit from an upgrade. There are a few options there. I have a KD120 and think it’s fine. Works with double pedals and is quiet.

The full electronic HH’s are expensive and I think way over priced. I’d try to get used to what your kit has or try upgrading just the cymbal pad. I love cheap Yamaha PCY100 pads for my HH, but they’re similar to what your kit already has. If it’s your pedal that feels cheap, the Roland FD7 or 9 HH pedals are better and feel very realistic.

FWIW, my kit, which is mostly >15 year old pads feels just as good as my acoustic kits. Some of my pads are from a 27 year old TD7 kit. I don’t mind the rubber cymbals and prefer them over the low noise metal cymbals (especially as I live in an apartment and noise of all types matters). But the larger Roland cymbals do feel better than the ones you have, like a CY-14C for a ride.

Surprisingly, pad technology hasn’t evolved much beyond 2 or 3 piezos, so I’d just buy a few used pads. The more recent trend of USB connected cymbals, snare, and HH are grossly overpriced IMO for very little benefit. And the trend to have electronic pads look like acoustic drums is somewhat ridiculous, except if you need the look of stage drums.

Some people also benefit from an isolation platform under the drums. I have something like that. https://billwolf.com/temp/drum%20platform%20005.JPG

[Lemmy]

I have an acoustic kit with the Zildjian low volume cymbals and the Evans dB one heads. I much prefer it to the (basic) electronic kit I started out on. The cymbals don’t sound ‘great’ but they sound ok, and they are significantly better than cheaper low volume cymbals I’ve tried. You might not record with them but they are very good for everyday playing. With the hats in particular, the dynamic range is a world apart from playing a rubber cymbal. There are so many ‘inbetween’ states that you just don’t get with rubber cymbals. You need to have a resonant object to engage with and take advantage of the physics of cymbals and how they behave in different situations.

Volume-wise, my kit is much quieter than a standard acoustic kit but I’m sure still audible to some extent to my neighbours. I still have to be considerate about when I play.
I’m not at all against electronic kits, but learning on one I felt I was making progress on timing, independence, synchronisation, but not so much on nuance and dynamics, which you really need to make things groove. (Still trying to get there.)

[billw]

I started on acoustics as a kid but after college, apartment life meant the quietest electronic kit I could find and lots of practice pad time. After playing those for many years it was wonderful to get access to a practice space again where I could make a lot of noise. But instead I really got into the nuances of playing quietly, learning brushes, more jazz, odd muting… But my hands really came together practicing at home on that practice pad & edrums.