#36

Well, my honest feelings are that this device is too expensive for what you’re getting. The sequencer for the internal samples is as full featured (from what I can tell, mind you I haven’t read the manual cover to cover!) as the Digitakt, in other words all the p-locks, trigs, trigless locks, and other tricks seem to be there. However, when you’re sequencing external gear (e.g. a Minitaur, a Volca FM, any external sound module) using the MIDI tracks, you cannot sequence the one thing that really matters: MIDI CC (and I think you cannot send program changes either). Even on the Digitone you can sequence CC, and this is important because CC controls things like the modulation wheel position and filter cutoff, as well as any parameters you might want to change such as note repeat, lfo rate changes, etc. In short, all it will really sequence are notes, nothing else. To me, this is more or less useless since part of the fun of a sequencer is sequencing the parts you can’t really play the same way - if you’ve got both hands on the sample box, you can’t also turn the filter wheel for that dub wobble or mod wheel up to get whatever effect it has on the other synth. And sequencing things like cutoff or oscillator on/off for gated synth action in tempo are a huge part of certain genres.

Now, this omission is in line with the principle of one knob per function, since they’d have to make the interface much more complex (effectively adding a second layer of meaning to various knobs) in order to implement this, so it’s understandable in that context why it’s not included. But it’s such an important function for an external sequencer that it’s rather astonishing, at that price point, to leave it off. Even the diminutive Korg SQ-1 is used as often to sequence non-note parameters as it is pitch.

So this is one of those cases where a new-to-sequencing person might go “so what, I only plan to use this with the internal sounds like a groovebox” and to that I say “amen, if you’re willing to pay that much for a groovebox, go for it”. But there are many people for whom the idea of an Elektron sequencer in a separate affordable box is a sort of holy grail, and this is definitely NOT that box.

Hence my concern.

2 Likes
#37


banging my head over hear
just wish it had sample recording. still good for the price. i might get one to have next to my old mpc 2000 for a more playable sampler

#38

I’m not sure what you mean by this, having a RYTM MkII myself and finding it incredibly playable and performable, I can’t for the life of me see what this little guy does that the RYTM can’t, and the workflow on the RYTM needs no improvement to my view. Am I missing something?

#39

The “new” OT MkII was mainly a hardware update, with the exception of the introduction of conditional trigs. The other substantial updates (pickup machines, more effects) happened within the first one and a half years after the original OT’s introduction in 2012. So this is a pretty mature instrument, I would not expect any more substantial updates.

#40

It feels kinda like… the Ferrari of music gear made a super cool consumer commuter car that’s still kinda expensive. The enthusiasts want a new high end machine, or an update to a current line. The current market has been hearing about something new and now they find out it’s not for them. The disappointment of seeing r&d (or lack of) going into supporting the new consumer market instead of high end functionality. And it may hurt monetarily as it’s not much less expensive than the next line up Ferrari.

I wouldn’t fault anyone for getting this. In fact I think it’s kinda cool. It’s just a little disappointing to feel like the future efforts of Elektron are supporting entry-mid level rather than furthering the high/deep end. The Model:Samples is kind of a Digitakt lite, the Digitakt is kind of an Octatrack lite. Incepta-lite.

Maybe I’ll change my mind at a later date. Current thoughts as I’m out and about.

1 Like
#41

I play with a friend as a live duo, and he handles percussion duties with a combination of a RYTM and TR8s. Out of the two machines, despite the fact that the RYTM is far more powerful, he prefers the TR8s for performing due to it’s more immediate interface. Workflow is a pretty subjective thing…

#42

I’m coming from this from a live performance point of view. Eight pads on the Rytm share the same output so I end up running into voice choking quite often. This new box would allow me to build up more complex patterns without running into that issue.

Rytm is missing a few features that could make it better like the ‘control all’ function. Sure you can set this up with ‘perf’ on the Rytm, but when playing live its less intuitive.

#43

I really don’t understand how any new sampler can exclude line-in sampling. It’s not a power user feature, it’s something even little kids intuitively ask for and want to play with. Uploading premade samples is such a workflow and creativity killer in comparison. I’d rather stop my session than do that in the middle of it, and I’m someone fairly savvy and experienced. You can direct sample with a $90 PO-33 and those things can p-lock too, so $400 for a sample player is crazy. If they’re aiming for beginners who want to use stock samples, there’s not very many included.

It’s not as portable as you’d expect; it looks a bit ugly, though that’s subjective; and it might have appealed to MIDI sequencing folks, but lack of CC sequencing kills that; no Overbridge either, which could have made this attractive to use alongside a DAW. At $400 it’s priced out of Volca range by at least $100 and another $150 gets you a used Digitakt, so it slots into an awkward market tier that pleases no one. Lots of head scratching here.

4 Likes
#44

Hm, for me the perfs are the beauty of the RYTM, and yes, it’s an 8 voice synth, but that’s well known. I just plan my voices accordingly. But as @mateo said, workflow is pretty subjective.

Good to know about how you use it. If all you need is 6 more sample voices that don’t share pattern lanes on the main unit, I guess it’s a good accessory box for anything! :slight_smile:

#45

You and I seem to be in the minority here, but this is exactly how I see it too. Still, people can make great sounds on a $10 garage sale Casio, if the workflow suits you it suit you so who am I to judge! :slight_smile:

1 Like
#46

Yes workflow is. I’m fine with just the Rytm in the studio, but when on stage it is a very different situation. Especially if you do everything on the spot.

#47

Amen. The single reason I still have my comparatively ancient Roland SP-555 is its ability to capture live line-in loops. Even the 404 has audio in, albeit not in real time performance. These features make these and similar dinosaur machines relevant today. All of this machine’s other compromises and deficiencies aside, that single feature (live looping/internal sample record) would instantly make it appealing to me, even a total killer box. And it’s not that difficult to implement, conceptually/technically. Kinda baffling.

1 Like
#48

YOU are their target customer :wink:

3 Likes
#49

Wow everyone is caning this sub-$600 market now. Battery pack is interesting, hopefully it’s more than a money grab that could have been avoided with usb-c power.

#50

Feels like the identity of Elektron has been somewhat diluted with this product, but yeah - if it funds the development of something innovative in the future im all for it.
Along with some other users here and there though, I can’t really see how that will happen/why someone would choose this as their first sampler. Even if you’re not paying attention to the relative lack of features for the price - it looks kinda vanilla and boring, not what the average teen beatmaker envisions for their first piece of kit. Reminds me of this:
image https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91nWhef8V0L.SX355.jpg

Name is a stinker too!
/hatespeech

1 Like
#51

im more attracted to the ui/oled design of this than the digitakt. i really dont like their uis in general so thats where im coming from. i feel like they try to put way too much on a single oled screen sometimes. so far from what ive seen i think i could dig it.

1 Like
#52

This thing looks pretty darn playable… so why does it have me thinking that I’d rather use an iPad app?

(Frustratingly enough, there aren’t any apps I can think of that cover the same ground and are as playable as this. But there easily could be, and once there are, there’s no reason I can see to buy a device like this. IMO everyone who makes a groovebox without having iPads in their competition matrix is leaving their flank open.)

2 Likes
#53

I have no horse in this race, but if I was focused on Norns, I’d want one of these to accompany it. A battery powered sample and drum beast seems like the perfect Norms companion.

3 Likes
#54

I have no horse in this race, but if I was focused on Norns, I’d want one of these to accompany it. A battery powered sample and drum beast seems like the perfect Norns companion.

That’s the most sensible use case I’ve heard so far. Instead of relying on a Digitakt to do everything and running up against its various limitations, offloading live sampling and pre-processing duties to the Norns might be smart:

  • Norns is field recorder size and battery-powered for recording sounds anywhere
  • more on-board storage space (2gb dedicated for recordings, I believe, vs. Digitakt’s 1gb), with ‘record to external drive’ functionality coming in firmware 2.0
  • recording with LEVELS / TAPE is super clear, easy, and readily available at any point
  • records stereo (though M:S will bounce any incoming samples to mono, so unclear what the benefits are here)
  • no recording length limitations, vs. Digitakt cutting you off at 33 seconds
  • transfer recorded samples to computer over wi-fi
  • plenty of sound processing / sample mangling applications exist, extensible and growing
  • if something is missing in this workflow, you can learn lua/supercollider and add it yourself

Norns+Model:Samples would run you $1200 new, which is not cheap and certainly more than a Digitakt or Deluge, but it sits squarely in the Octatrack Mk II price range, and the combination is arguably more powerful and simultaneously more intuitive to use (for certain purposes) than an Octa while
still putting an Elektron sequencer in your hands. Probably provocative, but worth thinking about as an exercise.

Organelle+Model:Samples is also a possibility at $900 with many of the above-mentioned features and a large library of patches (many revolving around live sampling), and with Orac letting you easily build a sampling/recording chain on the fly, could be very fun and capable indeed.

The biggest downside I can think of is that you sacrifice the “one box streamlined workflow” of Digitakt or Octatrack - with either the Norns or Organelle with wi-fi dongle, the simplest workflow will involve 3 devices - wireless transfer of the sample to computer, then using Elektron’s Transfer software to transfer those samples to Model:Samples. At that point any benefit of portability is probably lost and anything that involves multiple steps and devices can hamper creativity and productivity. That’s a subjective consideration but not a small one, by any means.

And then there’s “your phone + Model:Samples” which is the cheapest option since you’ve already got one of these in your pocket, and there’s probably plenty of reasons to go this route…

4 Likes
#56

Thaaat! :slight_smile: I think so too - “it’s a lean clean hands-on machine!” that is what Muhammad Ali would have said, correct?