So here’s my current puzzle. Keep in mind I’m relatively new to a lot of MAX, so I’m hoping it’s an easy fix, but I’m trying to set up some clocking from my ES-8 to the rest of my modular. Sending a trig has been easy, but I’ve had a harder time controlling the whole envelope within MAX and I feel like it shouldn’t be this hard. So I’m pasting in a patch with a simple envelope being drawn in the function object. What is happening periodically is that I get almost like a hanging note sort of vibe where all of a sudden the output shown in scope is offset despite not changing the offset at the end of the signal. If it happened consistently when I did certain things it wouldn’t be as irritating, but as it stands I haven’t isolated why sometimes it gets hung up and offset and other times it behaves as it should.

A follow-up question would be - how would I modify the patch so instead of being an envelope triggered by something, it was just a repeating function where at the end of each envelope drawn it would just ping the function to start all over again, like a Maths set to cycle.

Sorry if this is easy stuff, but I’ve been hung up on this and the Cycling74 forum gave me no responses when I posted about it a month back.

Here’s the patch in text form:


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
1308.3oc6Z0saihCF85zmBKzb2lhvFaCrZ0JsOGqVUQ.2DOK+DAlNs6noO6q
+gzPZBT2Dh6L6N2PDFS37c7we97Y3q2rvaU8irVOvuB9SvhEe8lEKzMoZXQ+
4K7JSeLqHsU2MuJ1WpW8YuklKIXOJzMWTmlWxZaAP+cWqpqjWUvD56C12Xq3
oBl9NFzs5Nwq6moIwSaYFv44A9q9KsMUjsgWs9tFVlvb0PXjOFRowQKADJwO
XIHReDg7Cd4F445GrD92R7TM8satQcX4LE529gD6nP7QwdxTwN7bh86Kpkf0
6EXzjVxDrl6XUoqLAUvkD5n9VuutoLUGXzkufBdo7Iq9y728LjOgcMd69VOl
2VB7VkVsdZ9Co4LJEo9gDLE0EENi5le44SpVPWpZokutJsX5XFh8IxXNApi1
D0IiFy3epWNf6hS7Qx4aQRNijDagng7SBbzDVVQfzYbVWaVZA6YUTL1RUTGL
ADFGpS5HoBU9Z5jgez4D9sY0aYWVFlfIFCSP9pI.TCzoIlzImN.nA+PMA395
JQK+ez2LD5SRHPoT0QSNjyGjLYHFNXZAbj0wi7Ff3JI8nuzezvkhuyfvUdXR
WyNdFCSj007.Cf.eBNKKYMEC+9L+zSWQZ8W7jzEBNuz0+O0mPMGam9j5X8I7
6O8YOcYk9DOy5ytpLAutZFUn40ko7JceBB1Kup6ZYMrs0Mhg29gTKtu0Fo.q
m4zrQfO4Ex3HpUNESJ8WZjlGKOKqyYCehmh+kKpJYdLQatGoQsA7u7ujUvy9
6z77g7wPUb3tnW1ms0box3tuvEatSq4NHRTGVN7DeLhJMJtqYbh7YKWvOgDg
I88AsDbqreRRX9r3nQ1oW5O7cl8YLuMVkpv3woulTbzj0jhNGI9pNgXu.edq
49MCuXs0ML13cCu63oWo97parqbEq4puByY5hmn2jgvXKLvCifynCd98fOwg
feWdDADaXU.MXuJ0ROs.2T9LFpG7UoZlhCnI+mSCzS.1oAnwynFHqtqRRCf8
dfOH7IVF93wBeYZ9gq6nN0FhvPAzoS0Qm8xYAAR0WjZAE3UqnVah+XctPH7M
lHbV6GRaAO+JNQ3hhahd.GFhL+LVbimwwcV95QVh+8Wfw.ytgiWdfIIq8YEP
F6tXctAzXjBNddc8NBc8aOqrYQl+pClfvrYaf5oJi4HR3zTUhSnpbVgH84Yw
T0UfofCMSNFSQBbBSscSZacyG2t32yI67YimLqKAds1DUPnO.G7AtWp8zfoF
OHbZaHjve3pzXm6Bi1+MJ0fLmuZyrmxJXe7BbntTCLY5A14zVUdZ1y.3EMdG
7lu9sHTrEUFefsYcO7J3Uu9k1qeJp1OLVaq6Zx1w38uMukf8OnbVqfWkp2mn
8chFbPm1vyyYUCiobdqx00A6YRcixelpgSNLLq.TRJW..gWD.U9Ws.gR436.
hWFkEYAfdEudUwC0F7n.cnavCwV7fcCdBsc7B5D7XE8Pbl7AYUFfP2gG32W3
AZk9wo.xJFhl3LEMzlLhuZb8phGcr+lLTjCGynwVOl4JDQsBQwNDQVkIhRbH
hrQW6tU5esKmw7B4PcMwJ2YTpCQjUoqINLaDwp70j.Ghn.aPD1gYivVkwF6v
rQXqxXSbX1nvCVPeD.gbGdP15y2Q3wF3btIhL6DP51sOvZZ6+O0HwqL8y055
b0exJpu9Gyo528uWC6A9t9aZIsIaCWvxDcMl8y3wXyWti9Crnopi2Wzr7I+s
a9Wv8nHdh
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------
2 Likes

Not sure about your hanging note issue - as I can’t really test it. However, it may be that moving to an all signal rate system solves it. Here is a nice way of poke~ing a function into a buffer~ then scanning over that with phasor~ and wave~. It should be solid even at audio rate.

Function_to_Buffer.maxpat (11.2 KB)

3 Likes

Man, how long have I been punting around in Max, feeling like I don’t know anything I need to know even after poring over all the categories in the object browser, and not found either preset or function? Thanks for this.

No other software I know has so much documentation and still makes me feel like the docs are missing.

1 Like

That’s why I’m hoping some help for one another can be good. I’m already stuck on the help Mark offered above, but I’m trying to understand by slowing down and reading through some of the documentation and trying to figure out how to translate that into what can be workable within my own little vision. Misuba - join us, hopefully we can help you :slight_smile:

Please do ask anything. I’ll try to explain that patch a bit more when I get a minute.

I think the thing to do is have a discussion about when to do sequencing at audio rate (using only the MSP objects, as in my example) and when to sequence using Max objects like metro, bang and counter (as in your patch).

It needs a slightly longer post than I’ve got time for at the moment, but asap.

Yeah, I’m just trying not to over-ask before at least giving it a little time and effort on my end. It’s a tricky line to figure out when you just don’t get it, and when you just lack the vocabulary and baseline of knowledge in MAX where a bit of poking around makes the difference. It’s definitely like learning a language (I’ve never really gotten into computer programming, so I know that’s probably an obvious statement for many of you). I enjoy the problem solving, I just wish there was some sort of reference book rather than all being online…some sort of matrix of ‘see also’ in paper form would help me I think and maybe even more charts or something.

Anyway, for this patch you shared I just don’t know as much about doing sequencing at audio rate, so I am going to try to spend a bit of time today while my students are working in the library on understanding that (if I can). I have a feeling I’ll be able to wrap my head about it a bit, but then, if I want my drunk object sequencer, I have to figure out how to modify your patch to allow for some more traditional sequencing - and I have NO idea how to do that with all MSP objects.

Doh! Anyway, I certainly appreciate the help.

C

I can’t seem to reproduce this. Perhaps this is an issue with the complete patch…

Are you able to post the patch here? If it’s the one you posted a pic of in the other thread then I may have some suggestions for optimising.

Also, if it is that patch - what kind of signal do you have coming into adc~ 1 (ie rate, shape, I’m assuming it’s CV?)

Me neither! But that’s the fun thing about Max.

Well, the screenshot I maybe posted initially was just sort of tinkering, but that was where I still had the envelope element. I gave up on that since the Cycling 74 forum and my friend Gregory who works there was too busy to respond for personal help (I’m sure he gets a lot of people bugging). Anyway, it’s messy, but here it is:


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
3861.3oc6cssaiiiD84t+JLBl21zFr3cMXvBruu+AKVzPwVIQy3KA1Jyz8NX
x29RQZY6zIlpxHwhNWxCI1N1Rm5vh0Mxh9O+7mt3p0eqZ6ES94I+mIe5S+4m
+zm7uT6K7ocO+SWrr7ayVTt0+1tXU0er9pe8hKC+qlpu03e4EqKmurZ61I.m
08O2178EU9+a2qr59kquuYQUi+ZA6d0vK0786pB.4hKl7e28upm6+7t63W.F
u6xbWYyraqWcyW2TMqI7YrV8T1kS3B+erJ+S3SY6uRtac8p8241W6u97ma+0
kCWvupb0MCVn8WjmWvgHBthImpc+XMNAtP1J2Z13K8sisk2T8Dw28lRyvsPh
TnENAsv8inv8XQbImOdi62c80MOL4569p6uekOgqzS3mlItd8pls0+O+KBvT
UgBbX+EwRaquYU4hmkqT1HbkQY2yUlB6Tg6GPboCF7mPVsvbU4x.1+2kMquX
zXw6WdU0FrpJ7SppbYjIJ5XzPAWumFrfwSCF4kNUomvB2UtwwAMUa9Z0pxqB
.kMZlQnfHJPRDFmgxN8g2hDggEiHDEsRrzXlxb+Hf2nbfEAGH71HblknmCto
rd0CClB1YczQD0qZdddH1jBi4fCEiANXjj48nBr2ZrgkEkMrdsBtbuVA4Dw1
YquqBMSvdFID5Ibw8dCzvduAfvq86+y3EBwvkkXg9Vv7ygUbXOzGcIf7v+rh
XidtQrtQOMmse1ZJB+6jRd8pDI4wB70djy6GI4LBk7jMlqhNl6sIwMh81jda
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q64cWCHVj5GnlYtzsmW1Td7G4H5pfg0SflejOPeZ8VKxoK6qJA2dPPbzaqUd
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aW.piBn4retaLmilA3brnne0ME2DJXCstDEozknaZS+Btfcn7LDJ8amUtnZx
WXSUScZR.W49sSWyLMMQBqhFcnMnKy0graKhyB5+Frv0KV6tFwr2tYYoGN5Q
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u+vqTtY1s0MUyZteS3f87a1vwP5EKW6twqtudmxk6N+We9+C0.LoV
-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

Meanwhile, because I gave up on the whole spitting an envelope out of MAX directly, I have been working on something that just sends pings to Just Friends, so this is a much cleaner design (maybe? certainly it’s been cleaner, but I’d imagine people would have plenty to critique and streamline about this one too):


----------begin_max5_patcher----------
5979.3oc6c01aajjb9y1+JFHDf.bQ63tp98EIHXwcI.GPRNfC2GBP1fCTjyZ
OqoHEHo7ZmCm+smt6gjhxVrmRlbpY3H6OHaQSN74o5tqp5ppt5+1qe0U2r7i
Uqup3GK9eJd0q9au9UuJ8RwW3Ua+8Wc0sS93z4SVmdaWMc4s2VsXyUW27+so
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-----------end_max5_patcher-----------

The idea is just to tinker with relationships of scaling between three LFOs controlling three drunk sequencers which trig the Just Friends in the LPG run mode. I have sort of a ‘master’ output too to trig my Zularic Repetitor and give me a sense of time I added a bit of primitive math that would help me figure out vaguely what the tempo is.

Again, I’m a novice to MAX, so by all means tear me apart and help me learn. My issue with your patch you offered is that if I’m a novice on the Max side of things, the MSP side is even more overwhelming. So the whole challenge of exclusively MSP sequencing has left me sort of baffled. It seems counterintuitive to sequence in MSP because I always understood that to be more processing, though there was a Kadenze class where the teacher got into the differences and benefits of audio rate sequencing I think. It all flew over my head.

I look forward to hearing people’s thoughts.

Nice patches! I see what you’re trying to do with the rhythmic fluctuations/relationships. It would be nice to hear the modular output at some stage… but the clicks are pretty good on their own :slight_smile:

I can’t see anytihing that is definitely not working there. You’re are running the Max scheduler pretty hard because of the rapid triggering (the bit that processes Max messages), but it seems to hold up at vector sizes of 32 and below on my machine. Sometimes it’s possible to ‘flood the scheduler’ by creating more max messages can be processed - using many snapshot~ objects at a fast rate often contributes. I thought that might be an issue, but it seems to be fine.

On the other patch there was a snapshot~ 10 connected to a slider, and I was going to suggest not doing this - as GUI objects don’t take well to streams of data that fast, but I guess it’s not the issue as you don’t have that in your other patch and the problem seems to persist.

It might be worth trying the patch without all the bang objects after the selects. Sometimes lots of GUI stuff can slow things up, but again I expect it’s not the issue.

The only thing I can suggest is to record some output of the offset sections as audio - as it may help to see exactly what’s happening there. For example here is some output from your first patch:

Seeing the shape and peaks might help explain it. I’m not totally sure exactly what you mean by it getting ‘hung up and offset’, but there must be a reason for it, and an audio record might help.

Sometimes it is. And sometimes it’s also too complex. Looking at it now - I wouldn’t know how to translate your drunk patch to just MSP. I expect it’s possible though.

However, some elements of audio rate sequencing actually make things easier, such as rate~ control, and ways you can distort audio signals at audio rate. That other patch I shared is actually something I use as a Bpatch to easily distort phaser~ ramps to any shape. Here is a slightly more usable example where multiple rates and shapes are blended together to create more complex envelopes.

My way to understand MSP stuff is to throw a scope~ or plot~ on everything (as you’ll see in the project).

Audio_Rate_Envelopes.zip (6.7 KB)

The patch should look like this:

2 Likes

I spent a bit more time fiddling with this, and ended up with a pretty good framework for exploring this at audio rate.I think this patch could be hacked around a bit to suit a variety of needs.

It’s not really tested, so expect a few surprises…

Audio_Rate_Envelopes_2.zip (9.1 KB)

6 Likes

Well, wow, this gives me plenty to chew on for the next few weeks. I’ve just started to fiddle with it and try to understand it, but it’s going to take me awhile to try to digest this.

Again, thank you. I have a lot to learn :slight_smile:

1 Like

Hey guys. Just found this thread off the Muffwiggler forums. Really great stuff. @_mark, I played with your first Audio_Rate_Envelopes patch/project. It’s pretty close to what I have been trying to do. I added a sine wave function to the leftmost bpatcher and also added some fm to the middle envelope. I’m a new user so I can’t upload attachments so here is a screenshot of my patch:

The retrigger functionality on your most recent upload is exactly what I was trying to figure out just now. Thanks!

I’m currently fiddling with a way of dynamically create (with js, not patching) multiple (user definable) clocks that can be modulated against each other (e.g. get a slope as its rising or falling and use that to trigger another clock) but still work as a master clock. So i guess kinda like a MakeNoise Maths but with potentially unlimited number of independent signal/clock generators, all tied to a master clock/retrigger (or not!). I can create the clocks and modulate them easily enough but i’m not sure what I would need to keep it all synced. Maybe expand on @_mark’s retrigger with sah~ driving a cycle~?

2 Likes

I just wanted to say how proud I am to see ‘fiddle’ or some variant used in three straight posts. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Seems potentially useful:

4 Likes

Awesome. The primary motivator behind the ES-8 and MAX explorations for me was to get off the linear ‘grid’ of my Octatrack as sequencer. This looks like an exciting collection!

1 Like

These look great. I wonder why Cycling '74 are distributing it as a package as opposed to making it part of the base install on the most recent update.

Also, I came across this thread from the Max forums recently. It’s got all the standard easing functions in gen~

1 Like

Pleased this was of use to you. Do post the patch back - when you can. Nice to have everything together.

Definitely possible. Depends whether you want to break it out into Max, then trigger with Line~ or keep the whole this signal based.

Not totally sure what you mean (as I’ve never used a Maths), but syncing with rate~ is great. Also using the Max transport with tempo synced phasor~ and metro objects works well.

I’ve been having a lot of fun tinkering with these patches. Here is the latest:

Rhythmic Studies.zip (11.8 KB)

It should make sense if you:

  1. Load up the project
  2. Turn audio on
  3. Flick through the presets
  4. Load a new wave into the [rate_mod] buffer~

Let me know if any dependencies are missing from the project… I think I added them all in.

Very much trying to explore the same ground @sellanraa. Nice when ideas feed back into each other.

I get the feeling there’s something really useful here, especially when combined with the easing stuff. Now to roll it into a coherent system…

2 Likes

Nice, I’ve only had a little time to tinker, but I’ve basically just changed some outputs and duplicated things so I have one primary LFO output and then three of the last stage of outputs to three different trigs of Just Friends in different multiples/divisions of the primary rate. I DID tinker with putting in a different waveform - different tiny bird call waveforms :slight_smile:

C

The Adventure Kid waveform pack is awesome for this.

1 Like