There’s another module like this called Mutation by Buck Modular. Pretty good module, but you have to reach out to the guy directly to order it. Light up push buttons on it are pretty nice.

Ever since I added a Frames to my rack it hasn’t ceased to amaze and surprise me. It can just do so many things, despite being very basic and avoiding having a bunch of different modes. Aside from the easter egg LFO mode and alternate firmwares, you always know what the inputs, outputs, and knobs are going to do. But it lets you use your imagination in a way that I just haven’t come across with other modules. It’s like a “make your own module” module, essentially. Whether you want a morphing controller, a compressor, a CV sequencer, a chaos generator, a binary gate sequencer, whatever, you can do it just by thinking through how you want the channels to behave over a timeline.

Stages strikes me as similar and might be the second MI module I try out, but I can’t think of other modules that are so simple and open ended as Frames. if anybody has thoughts on it I’d love to hear them because I could do with more of this kind of thing in my rack.

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20 characters of mandatory Cold Mac & Maths

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Teletype probably is the opposite of fitting your criteria, but it’s definitely a build-your-own module that I love.

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I had a different experience with Frames. Having written a general purpose keyframe animation system for a computer game engine (applicable to particle effect systems for any nuneric or color parmeter, and a few other things like weather intensity etc.) I wasn’t comfortable with Frames’ inability to map the timelines visually. Once you got past some pretty simple shapes – admittedly very useful ones – it was difficult to edit. I appreciated a lot about its design but I really wound up using it like a giant Shades, or sometimes like that new ADDAC Transition Controller.

Hoping for some suggestions to move my rig in a Serge-like direction, realizing that it’s an impossible end goal…

But still, this is where it’s at for the moment, and any ideas will be helpful…

I also have a Mother 32 and a vintage MS-20…

Edit - the Divkid Mutes is aspirational… and there are two 2-hp gaps in the Shared System…

For whatever reason I wound up with two DPOs, and would consider offloading the silver one… for now I want to keep both Maths and Optomixes…

Thanks…

c

I think Frames is a really interesting idea and a brilliant module in many ways, but I ended up selling mine and putting a Maths in its spot with no regrets. I could see Frames being super useful if you are using it as a preset morpher, sequencer of sorts, or some other form of predictable, controllable, predetermined modulation, but what I wanted instead as a sort of “modulation centerpiece” was something that was able to output things different from those which I put in, or rather different from what I might think of myself - Frames doesn’t really do well (in my experience) in a generative/self-patching/experimental context, which is often what I want my modular for.

It also wasn’t designed for those things, but I ended up wanting something with a use that could transform as a patch progresses, whereas Frames needs its use to be predetermined, at least to a degree, by its nature.

I don’t have a Cold Mac, but it seems like it’d fit the same sort of goal of a ‘macro’ control, but with more potential for self-patching and more complex interplay between signals. I also think that Maths is deserving of its reputation…it can do so many different things (like the DUSG it is based on) but the mixing/offset/logic options in the middle, and the way they interact with the function generators themselves, is really special and versatile.

I suppose what would be a good addition for you might depend on whether you want to add things that are perhaps more prone to happy accidents (which I think Cold Mac and Maths would fit in with), or do you want another versatile module that is more for surgical precision?

In the midst of a whittling down. Would love to get this down to 6U/7U case soon, sales dependent : - )

Thinking of parting with Batumi and Stages (don’t know why, but the faders never really clicked with me), Wave Multipliers and other things I can get outboard (like Magneto for El Cap, and FH-1 for CV.OCD). I also might relinquish the MSCL and put my Heat on fulltime compression duties.

Maybe this is better suited for another thread, but curious if people have opinions on two things:

  1. As I don’t use Maths’ more involved use cases (typically just using it for envelopes, cv mixing, attenuation, LFOs), do you think I could potentially replace it with a Zadar and a Quadratt or two? btw, I’d definitely box up Maths for a while to test the Zadar out rather than selling it directly on…

  2. I’m really liking having both Just Friends and Tides 2 in the rack as two variations on a similar concept, curious if other people are using both?

What is the 1u thing above the Batumi?

I’ve got two Maths, and wouldn’t dream of letting either one go at this point…

I can somewhat relate to the faders not clicking for Stages and Batumi, there’s something really unintuitive about trying to position them in a repeatable way, as opposed to a knob. I guess I’m just so much more used to manipulating knobs, maybe from guitars and pedals, or the old MS-20… It feels more intuitive and reliable. The faders also feel like they’re a little bit sticking, so it’s easy to over-or under-shoot where you want to put them…

You’re making me really want to try the Tides2… I need a bigger rack!

Exactly! Well put regarding the UI of knobs vs. faders. I guess I’ll just let them float away and see if I truly miss them.

The 1U tile is a DIYed Poti switch! I definitely love Maths, but curious if I can live without it since it is…a bit big for how I use it.

Tides2 is pretty great!

I just wanted to say that I get tons of mileage out of Stages and Shades. Gives me almost everything I loved about Maths and a little more! I totally understand the knobs vs faders thing though. I will say that there are certain things I could do easily with Maths that require more cables and brain power. For some reason inverted envelopes (for pseudo-sidechain compression) are a lot more fiddly with Stages and Shades.

If I ever ditch my little 6u 90hp case for something (considerably) bigger I would definitely get another Maths though!

thanks for your input @eblomquist @nutritionalzero @ThurberMingus !
glad to hear I’m not the only one with a fader hang up : - )

I wanted to say I’m no Maths hater! and totally understand that it can truly function as a box of utilities, as Tony Rolando’s said, to @nutritionalzero 's point. it’s been with me since the beginning of my modular journey and it’s pretty great, just as I’m trying to create an ideal 208hp system, it’s looking a little large.

i’m in a similar spot - trying to constrain myself to 208HP (+ a 1U row) and Maths is looking a bit large, seeing as i use it for LFOs, ADs, or attenuverting and no wild crosspatching.

I’m looking at replacing it with Cold Mac and a small attenuverter like the ALM O/Ax2 to save some HP, knowing i have other function generators elsewhere (like my Stages). Then I’ll gain access to a lot of Cold Mac goodness. Scary tho, I do love the module and I’ll be sad to see it go out of my case.

I’m thinking about picking up a matrix mixer (Doepfer a-138m) and it’s got me wondering how Eurorack modules handle line levels if used totally in isolation from any modular level signals.

If you input and output as line level would things still work, or are controls scaled to work only with modular levels? I’m guessing in more complex analogue and certainly digital modules it wouldn’t work, but perhaps with something as simple as a mixer it might. It would be really useful to be able to use the matrix mixer in isolation from the modular with other gear/effects etc.

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A-138m is a pretty brilliant module IMHO, at least with Euro level signals. It’s not the quietest one out there though and there can be some crosstalk/bleed.

Not sure how it would behave with line level signals in general – it might be a bit noisy, or the knob response might feel a bit weird.

I’ve used it to attenuate Euro signals for pedals while also patching feedback back to the pedal, and then run it from there to my audio interface (without going through more Euro modules) and it was fine for that. But that was Dark World with an intentionally noisy/degraded sound, so I’m not sure that’s a useful anecdote :slight_smile:

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Thanks for that, really useful thoughts! Any other particular things you’ve used it for that worked nicely? Initially I’m planning on using it to control different feedback routings between 3 Sisters, Ts-L and a spring reverb - but looking forward to exploring.

In regards to line level I guess I’ll just have to give it a go and see. Thinking it would be cool to use it to quickly turn my reel to reel into a tape delay, which is pretty noisy anyway!

Does this exist or do I need to make it myself?:

  • 2HP/3HP
  • 4x independent fixed non-inverting above-unity/boosting gain stages. Just in + out jacks with no controls
  • maybe trimmer pots on the back to set the gain tho?
  • normalled together in a chain for optional extra loudness/overdrive
  • Maybe jumpers on the back to switch to inverting?

Haven’t seen all that in that small a package. 2hp has MIX but it has just one output, as well as AVERT but it has only two channels of attenuverting. Erica has Pico A MIX that’s 3hp, has 3 channels but just one output. So no, haven’t seen exactly what you’re looking for.

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thanks for the info. Yeah not exactly looking for a mixer, just 4 separate stages of arbitrary gain increase in absolutely as small a space as possible, for things like boosting quiet signals, overdriving filter inputs, creating feedback loops etc

Might actually design such a thing :slight_smile: I thiink i saw a DIY module which was similar (that’s where i got the idea of gain trimmer pots) but can’t remember where.

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Closest I can think of that’s commercially available would be one of the amplifier modules. Doepfer and Addac do them - I’m sure others do too. But they have pots for the gain adjustment and they are single (Doepfer) or dual (Addac) channel only.

DIY might be a good option.

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