I very much believe people should start with a semimodular. It gets you acquainted with concepts while giving you a complete voice in an affordable package. It also lets you expand more slowly. With a semimodular as your starting point, you can get a small cheap case and add a module at a time.

I started with a pair of Mother-32’s, and there was some benefit to being able to cross-patch them, but even a single one offers plenty. These days I would probably recommend an 0 Coast instead, along with a Disting so you can try many different types of modules and experience first-hand what they do.

A lot of people starting out build $1500-$2000 cases and think that’s how they need to get started. And if you have the money to spare, that’s great! But it’s possible to start smaller and be very satisfied and learn a ton without being overwhelmed.

Also, I hear you on lack of being able to play with things in stores. I have had to buy things to try them out, and I live in San Francisco. We have a shop but the owner is hostile to customers (or that’s been my experience) so I mostly shop online.

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Hostility towards customers is not a long term success strategy!

I also second your insights on starting semi modular…

Yeah I should say, I’m terribly irresponsible with money and have flushed a large amount of it buying/selling modules… I went from 14u 104hp down to 3u 104hp and a 62hp palette case and i’m a lot happier… though I feel like I did have to take that journey to arrive where I’m at. So I hope it’s easier, and less expensive for you, but I have to say, it’s been worth it… Also I build a lot of modules myself which is a lot of fun and you can make a couple extra bucks to fund the habit that way as well…

My fault, I should have clarified- I’ve had a Behringer Model D paired with a Korg SQ-1 for about a year. Not the most robust semi-modular, but let me cut my teeth on the core concepts. What I lack (as you can imagine) are interesting ways to animate that voice, as well as different voices themselves. The Model D does it’s thing very nicely, but it’s thing is all it does. It’s awesome, but it does not do “delicate” all that well.

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Yep, I started with a Mother 32, then moved to a 0-Coast. I think its THE best way to dive in. I prefer the 0-Coast over the Mother for a starting point. I think the 0-Coast is the de facto entry point / gate way drug IMO. I had the Mother for a while and then sold it after I got bored, went back to guitar for a bit, but the 0-Coast really sparked the modular bug. You basically have half of a Maths, half a Dynamix, an STO, a Contour all in one package. Plus 2 channels of Midi. That’s huge.

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Yeah they def do talk, but I always found it way more annoying to get things talking in a way that makes sense. RIght before jumping into modular I had a MiniBrute, a 0-Coast, a Minilogue, an SQ-1 and a TC Electronic Loop pedal which I was trying to get everything to sync to and it was a pain to get everything locked together. My patience is very thin for that kind of stuff, so I prefer somewhat of a standard that Euro has… even though its not perfect.

Agreed. I started with an 0-Coast and now after a few different cases and too much money on modules I’m going to a Shared System + STO. I’ll never forget how my first “Holy cow! This is one voice?” Patch on the 0C :smiley:

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I was not super-familiar with the Behringer Model D, but looking at it, it looks a little more semi than modular in the sense that you really don’t have patch point access to all parameters and you can’t break internal normalization so much.

Go full modular if that’s where your heart is! I definitely didn’t waste much time going down the rabbit hole once I started buying modules.

However, something like the O Coast is completely different animal, not just because of Make Noise’s philosophical bent and sound, but because nearly every internal connection can be overridden, and all the component parts can be used independently outside the O Coast if you want. Once your modular rack grows, the O Coast becomes a collection of useful utilities in a small package, if you’re not using it as a voice.

The O Coast also very explicitly labels all the normalizations on its panel, which shows you exactly how signal flow is moving, and therefore what normalizations you break when you patch it. It’s a very educational instrument.

Or again, go full modular, not going to necessarily advise you against it. But try to go slowly if you can. I used to think that advice was basically making a virtue of not having the budget to buy bigger systems (I’m a terrible person, at heart), and I will admit that buying a lot was the education on different modules I needed, given I didn’t have a Perfect Circuit or a Control or Control Voltage to visit and be hands on. But, I bought too much too fast, and it got overwhelming and to a point where I didn’t really know how my modules worked. Or, I would spend some time with one module, and then with another, and I would forget what I’d learned on the first one. I’m in the process of reeling it in, and I’m happier.

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Yeah I should mention I prefer wonky(but defo not wanky) nonsense style music coming out of the machines…seems more genuine but thats just me mostly…It annoys my mates who are sticklers for sync. Dont get me started on tuning standards…but i get where ur coming from…I also imagine sometimes wouldnt it be nice to just sell it all and have it in one nice rack.

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Thanks, @Whatwetalkabout. FYI, those ‘Generative Ambient Using Only Ableton Live’ videos are Patreon-only :wink: but someday I might make a public one.

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Have you considered a complex oscillator instead of something like Plaits for “evolving, surprising timbres that can’t be generated any other way?”

A CO may not seem like a good beginner module, but five years in (and only a month into my first CO), It’s something I wish I would’ve started with rather than cycling through a number of more basic oscillators.

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I have not! Got one that I should look into?

I only have experience with Make Noise’s DPO and Instruo’s Cš-L. Both are wonderful.

You may be able to test DPO on VCV Rack?

I still haven’t bought a CO yet. I’m considering it though. I’d like the Verbos one, that would be my first choice. A DPO perhaps too or a Sputnik if i could find one. My setup is two single VCO’s, a Sputnik and Pittsburgh Primary Oscillator, and while I feel I’d actually loose some some tonal options, I’ll like the idea of having to patch a lot less, even for just a basic FM patch.

Make Noise stuff is not on VCVRack. I love my DPO. Lots of timbres and with the built in Strike input you get shaping as well. Also, it can be two voices if you don’t mind not using the ‘complex’ part of things.

I will say that I found the DPO hard to ‘tame’. I’m used to it now, but it seemed far too easy to get crazy noise out of it. YMMV but I know I’m not the only one.

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endorphines complex osc sounds absolutely awesome
herz donut and the new piston honda are also fascinating
verbos got really juicy oscillators as well
dont know why dpo is everywhere
seems makenoise got the pr thing right…

You know, I think what I’m ultimately after are a couple different basic voices that can be modulated. It’s not so much that I’m after a complex timbre as much as a complex evolution of a very simple timbre that is different than a guitar.

An example. Last night, I got to a very happy place by using Awake on Norns to generate a very slow (like 5bpm) sequence of basic triangle waveforms on the minilogue, which I then sent through a few pedals. It was the closest I’ve come to what I’m seeking. What I want is to then be able to add an element of randomness to it all. I watched a few videos on the Intellijel “Scales” module, and that excited me, if that gives you any indication.

Sorry, I definitely didn’t mean to suggest that a CO is either necessary or without a significant learning curve. With a goal of timbral exploration, however, that learning curve could be fun and the potential breadth is, perhaps, less limited than what was in the proposed rack.

Ok, everyone has been so helpful today, and I’m sorry to hold this thread hostage. A couple more questions and I’ll get back to work :grinning:. If one was designing a very minimal skiff to just dip one’s toes in the modular waters…

From a functional perspective (i.e. the system actually working), what is this setup missing?

all together now: V-C-A’s

edit: to be more helpful – I personally would also want more modulation – something more tweakable than pams and maybe more interesting to put through scales (also, throw a 1U sloth in there! :slight_smile: ). It seems like leaving off a sequencer is a deliberate choice here, but there are a lot of versions of a case similar to this that would have some other sequencer options than pam’s and scales but that’s very much a matter of taste – having not used ansible I would guess that my preference would be for that over this combo! While we’re at it – looking at your previous rack – stages could do well here too for the modulation I mentioned!

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