#1524

Hi all.

I have 96HP for a small rig, including power. Will be coupled to an OP-1, a Keystep, and a Norns. Want to create percussion sequences, possibly play samples, add effects to audio input, and output it so the OP-1 can record it.

I have zero experience in modular.

Go :slight_smile:

#1525

Modular percussion is a fun, but very strange beast. You could easily tie up 96HP searching for a good snare sound, say. There are dedicated modules like Akemieā€™s Taiko that you could use to this end, but I think before advising you to buy some module I should ask: what about these things do you need modular for?

For ā€œtypicalā€ or ā€œtraditionalā€ use cases involving percussion, sample playback and effects, my strong feeling is that modular solutions tend to be expensive, cumbersome and/or underpowered. By typical, I mean things like creating bread-and-butter drum sequences, set-and-forget delay, reverb, samples-as-ambience or samples-as-voice, etc. For these things, a good sampler and maybe some pedals would get you way further.

All that said, Iā€™m not saying there isnā€™t an interesting 96HP rack out there dedicated to these things, but just to try and discern what your expectation is going in.

10 Likes
#1526

Excellent answer.

I want to play with the sounds from the start. I enjoy mangling samples, but also like creating the sounds and then sequencing them in stages onto tape.

Also I like the tactile nature and learning new things.

I also want to adjust sounds and effects based upon conditions Iā€™ll program. And I have a tiny space, and racks allow me to build up a wall not across a desk.

:slight_smile:

#1527

Maybe a weird detour, but one of my favorite drum sources is the iPad app Patterning 2ā€¦

5 Likes
#1528

Slight tangent, maybe, but I donā€™t think thereā€™s anything in Eurorack that can compete with the musicality and sound of the Double Knot for percussive ideas. Iā€™ve tried lots of modules and I sold almost all of them. Not becuase they were awful, more because this guy is awesome.
http://lorre-mill.com/doubleknot/
It can interact with Eurorack quite easily through a simple passive converter box.
The only Eurorack drum/percussion module Iā€™ve kept, after trying many, is the Noise Engineering Numeric Repetitor - it can invent beats I would never think of.
This is just me, thoughā€¦

4 Likes
#1529

Do you have CV sequencing taken care of? If you do, a one shot sample playback module can get you very far and there are a few that are 4hp (Radio Music, Disting mk4 and maybe 3, TipTop One come to mind). You donā€™t get two samples simultaneously with these modules but you can just feed them a steady clock for triggering samples and use CV to choose which sample youā€™re playing back. You donā€™t even need a trigger sequencer this way, just a clock. If you really want rests you can add a blank sample to your playback module.

These can be your own samples of course so in the way you talk about building things up on tape your could use your modules to make percussion sounds, chop them up and feed them to your playback module.

1 Like
#1530

Trying to avoid screens :slight_smile:

At some point Iā€™ll need to add one to my setup, I know thatā€™s coming, but Iā€™m holding out as long as I can. I spend 12 hours a day working on a screen. :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#1531

I hear youā€¦ if it helps, Suzanne Cianni uses an iPad running Animoog to supplement her Buchla rigā€¦

1 Like
#1532

And a second one for controlling the H9.

2 Likes
#1533

I did not know that, cool.

Iā€™ve fiddled with the H9 but didnā€™t get a very good sense of how I would use it.

#1534

So you need:

  1. An output module (unless the OP-1 can trim/attenuate incoming signals)
  2. Effects: what sort of effects? How much modulation control do you want over parameters?
  3. Samples
  4. Create percussion sequences: this is a trigger sequencer of some kind, sound sources, and hopefully modulation of these sources

This is a lot to fit into 92hp, and also there are a lot of unanswered questions here.

I guess my question would be, why modular? What are you looking to get out of a modular setup, thatā€™s specific to modular?

You already have two devices that should be able to fit most of these requirements. I actually donā€™t know a ton about Norns, but itā€™s a computer. It had better be able to do all or a significant chunk of what youā€™re wanting. I also donā€™t know a ton about the OP-1 but the feature set youā€™re describing sounds like what I know about the OP-1.

ā€œWhy modular?ā€ Is always a good question to be asking yourself :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#1535

Iā€™ve been asking myself ā€œwhy music gearā€ every day, let alone why modular! :smiley:

I guess the why modular question is answered as: I want to explore something I know nothing about, as I imagine fun mistakes will ensue. I also like the fact itā€™s hands on, with no screen, itā€™s tactile. And itā€™s aesthetically pleasing - Iā€™m a designer, how things look and feel are very important to me (Iā€™ve been known to take two years to choose a lamp, and then take it to be painted in a colour I want). Also I like how it can slowly build over time, and can constantly change.

Why not use the OP-1 for it all? Because the OP-1 is limited in many regards, I find the sequencers to be very basic. They work often but not always.

Why not the norns? I donā€™t own it yet, Iā€™ll be ordering on the 19th I think. But that scratches a different itch, and hopefully the modular scratches the other. They will hopefully combine well.

I think Iā€™d like to start slowly, with power and some basic effects like reverb, delay etc. Again, the OP-1 has these but they donā€™t sound great, and require a lot of recording, sampling, adding effect two, recording, sampling, adding effect 2.1 etc. Each time you get more noise. Itā€™s fun though. But I think for now, to start, Iā€™d like effects. Iā€™ll then add on sound generation and possibly the Hermod for all my sequencing needs.

Also, I donā€™t want a desk full of synths and bits, I want it racked, as I have a very small space for music.

1 Like
#1537

Hope that works out, Iā€™ve ended up with a rack AND the desk full of synths and bits anyway :smiley:

2 Likes
#1538

Same. Plus, unracked modules, DIY work of various kinds in various states of progress, little spice jars of 4 different kinds of screws and 3 different kinds of washers, a couple of stray catsā€¦

4 Likes
#1539

(This is all my opinion, not the forumā€™s)

If youā€™re primarily doing signal processing of external signals, youā€™ll need to get your signals up to Eurorack levels, which are 6db higher than line, and then back down. This is usually done with a ā€˜guitar interfaceā€™ module though your line signal can be anything. Linked search of modules is not exhaustive, but a starting point. Getting back down to line can be less of a problem if your mixing solution can trim, but if youā€™re recording directly into the OP-1 or Norns I believe youā€™ll need to bring the signal levels down first.

If youā€™re looking for the traditional idea of ā€œeffectsā€, there are some. Like drums, effects are not something that modular necessarily does better than non modular (thereā€™s a whole thread devoting to discussing this actually). But, there are some interesting reverbs and delays. Itā€™s worth looking for a few that sound interesting and either trying them out directly or watching YouTube videos about them to get a feel for what they sound like. A short list might be (anyone, chime in with your favorite):

  • Erbe-verb
  • Echophon
  • Chronoblob
  • Magneto
  • Folktek Alter

The places where modular really shines in the realm of signal processing are (IMO)

  1. modulation over parameters
  2. ā€˜borderlessā€™ signal processing

The first is pretty self-explanatory: basically, a good modular effects unit will give you control to automate changes to some or all parameters of a given effect. This does mean however that youā€™ll want modulation sources. I completely recommend a Maths as a first modulation source, because itā€™s such a useful module and also one that you have no problem selling if you decide Maths (or modular for that matter) is not for you. Nearly everyone wants a Maths at some point.

For 2, what I mean is that, modular pretty much lets you route signals however you want. Its reverbs and delays are fine, but you could also take incoming audio and use it to modulate the frequency of another signal. Or split that signal into a bunch of frequency bands and route them into different places in stereo space. Or feed that audio signal into something that will derive triggers from it, and use those triggers to fire very short envelopes so you are essentially getting a sawtooth sound that is related to your incoming audio. Orā€¦ ==insert Lines suggestions here==

You can kind of do anything you want, is the point. That sort of ā€˜what if I do this, oh neat, what if I try thatā€™ is the draw, IMO. Also, the fact that audio signals and signals for controlling modulation are the same thing (at least in Eurorack), which opens up all kinds of possibilities.

I donā€™t want to discourage you from getting into modular! But I think if you put together a rack to do reverb and delay, youā€™ll be disappointed in the return on investment versus just getting a pedal. I hear the neat & tidy aspect of the rack, and if cost isnā€™t a concern, then have at it. I do think though that effects are one of the places where modular is not as effective as other kinds of gear, if youā€™re thinking of effects in the ā€˜traditionalā€™ sense.

7 Likes
#1540

FWIW, as a noob, i feel i was really lucky to already have an Avalanche Run on hand when i broke into modular, and it still sits at the end of my chain despite now owning clouds, disting, and a pico DSP.

I might get a chronoblob one day, but at least from a just starting out standpoint, having a strong reverb/delay pedal has been absolutely wonderful.

3 Likes
#1541

Same! I also had an Avalanche Run before most of my modular, and I still use it on a lot of my patches, even though I have some in-rack effects now.

#1542

When do you make the decision that you arenā€™t clicking with a module?
Iā€™ve got a VCFQ that Iā€™m finding to be gnarlier than I want and a Marbles that Iā€™m only kind of jibbing with. Iā€™ve had both about 4 months.

#1543

One thing I like to do is focus on said module and only 1-3 others to compliment it. I see what I come up with if I make myself use it as a key component of a patch and make a decision whether or not those uses are valuable to me. I also like to stop using something for a while, then come back to it. If I find myself liking what it provides that I hadnā€™t been using for that period of time, Iā€™ll explore it more. If not, itā€™s more likely to go on the chopping block.

Iā€™ve actually been in this mode myself recently. Its a little weird to get rid of things that I may see as so ā€œusefulā€ in certain context, but it does feel good to rid myself of creative distractionsā€¦ Prime example currently is the DLD. I really like what it does and Iā€™ve created some beautiful music with it, but playing to itā€™s strengths can muddle my compositional intent as I get lost in the ā€œprettyā€ aspect of it. Time will tell I suppose.

4 Likes
#1544

Usually when Iā€™m testing a module just prior to packing it up for sale is when I discover all kinds of great things about it :slight_smile:

5 Likes