#1889

Do you happen to have a Maths? Would love to know how the envelopes compare to the ones from Maths.

#1890

Yeah, we all felt this way at some point - often with a complex function generator like Maths, but perhaps with other modules.

Learning Maths is like learning storecupboard cooking: it is actually lots of separate ingredients (two function generators, the logic, the attenuverters, and the EOC/EOR outputs). Following a recipe is a great way to make dinner but doesn’t always help you get a feel for cooking with ingredients, or making your own things.

I had a look at the Arcade Trill patch, and whilst it’s not so complex, if you just follow the instructions, you will get a modulation output that is somewhat hard to take apart and ascertain what’s going on. But the directions for building it up will give you some clues. It’s a complex LFO, effectively - an LFO modulating another oscillator. It’s a patch that makes sense from top to bottom : start with hearing what CH4 does on its own, and then have a look at what CH1 is doing when the EOC connection is made but not the BOTH one.

A scope helps a little, but so does your ears. Just get a simple square wave or something coming out of an oscillator, and feed the Math CH1 output into pitch CV: it’s really easy to detect changes in pitch, so this is a good place to start seeing what each layer of ‘seasoning’ is doing. Think about which knobs each stage is ‘turning’ via CV, or what is being shaped at what stage.

4 Likes
#1891

Yeah, the trick here is to realise that it’s a set of related functions in one module: more like a Serge panel. You have two slew limiter based (this is an important realisation) envelopes, two integrators (think LPF), a bank of attenuators and a set of analogue logic functions on the outputs.

These are normalled together so you can end up thinking of it as a single entity. This thinking (inputs->magic->outputs) makes it very hard to reason about. Once you consider it as a set of functions behind a single panel you realise much better how to approach it. Moreover, if it were 6 distinct modules it would be much more obvious why it could do a lot of things it can do (and the potential it has). The number of “special recipes” for it can really add to the confusion.

1 Like
#1892

Comparable in that you can get 2,3,4-stage envelopes (with some creative patching). AFAIK, the Vortex is linear only so (though fast) not as snappy as Maths envelopes.

1 Like
#1893

Thanks @chalkwalk and @simonvanderveldt for your detailed answers. It’s good to know others way of thinking.
I know I have a few things to try in my patching. :grinning:

1 Like
#1895

I’ve got a Make Noise TEMPI for the first time and I’m very confused by the factory settings.
I’ve read in the manual for version tempi60 (the startup button lights show that version) that the factory settings for the clock should be 50% and CH1 tap tempo but my clock edit settings is BLUE (leading tap tempo OFF) after a factory reset.
It’s very confusing since all the YouTube studies are expecting that the pot are for state selection and not tempo (I suppose it was like that in the OG firmware) and the manual contradicts my actual behavior.

What are the clock edit settings supposed to be?

I’ve also found another contradiction in the manual:
On page 10 about the program edit settings it says that button 1 is for 100% human resolution. On page 28 in the tips and tricks it says

If Human Programming and you would like to use only Integer Divisions or Multiples, set Human Resolution to 100% ([PRESS] Button-3 while on Program Edit Page). This will ensure instantly perfect Programming of ‘four on the floor’ beats, or something similar.

I appears that the tips and tricks part is wrong @walker ?

2 Likes
#1896

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and demystification.

One more question and I think I understand what each “ingredient” does in this medley of control:

For channels 1 and 4, the slews: they are in essence emulating the control signal it receives, but with potential edits to the rise and fall points of the signal? Do I understand that correctly?

And one additional question: are waveforms/LFOs only bipolar if the signal allows it? Or are there waves which are unipolar and waves which are bipolar?

#1897

Channels 1 and 4 aren’t emulating the signal, they are passing it through. They use a circuit called a slew limiter, which puts a speed limit on how fast a signal can go up or down.

To let a signal pass through unaffected, set the Rise and Fall times to their lowest (CCW) settings.

If you put in a square wave (see below) and then increase the “Rise” time, Maths will slow down how long it takes the voltage to get from its lowest point to its highest point.

Similarly, if you increase the “Fall” time, it will take longer for the voltage to decrease from its starting point to its final destination. (The diagram below uses the term “low time”, but same difference.)

In the example below you can see both the rising and falling edge are affected. Maths can slew the rising and falling portion individually, which allows you to have portamento only on intervals that are rising OR falling.

At very long Rise or Fall times, you can see how the wave may be slowed down enough that it will never catch up!

8 Likes
#1898

20 characters of Thank you!!

#1899

Just adding that the trigger inputs complicate things a bit - as they cause a full cycle of the rise and fall signal regardless of the length of the trigger or its amplitude.

@xidnpnlss One way to understand how this works is to send a 5v gate signal to the channel 1 input and then unpatch and send it into the trigger input. The resulting envelopes will have a different amplitude (5v vs. 10v) and depending on the length of the gate signal, they will have different shapes as well.

2 Likes
#1900

Good lord. Doing my head in with practical use potential. Thank you! I’ll stop flooding the thread now.

#1901

To put an even finer point on it, when you trigger the trigger input, it causes ~10v to be pumped into to the slew, and those 10v will continue to be pumped into the slew until the EOR goes high. EOR seems to be what shuts off that particular faucet, which is why you can’t interrupt the rise (attack) with a new trigger. Once EOR goes high, the fall commences. If nothing is in the input jack, then the slew is now receiving 0v, so it will head toward 0. However, you can have a separate signal going into the input jack, in which case the slew will fall toward that. EOC won’t go high until the slew somehow makes it back to 0. By manipulating a voltage at input, you can actually make the slew voltage rise again (during the fall phase). Moreover, once you’re in the fall phase, you can retrigger the rise at the trigger jack. Various opportunities for shenanigans in this dance.

9 Likes
#1902

Is there a list of Midi-CV modules that can work with Norns? I know that my FH-1 cannot, but Hermod can. Does anyone know of a Midi-CV module that can use used with Norns but also can accept Midi over 5pn din?

#1903

I’m trying to get a gong sound out of elements or rings, help me out. So far I’m im getting okay bells and pings. What do I need to do to get a good ringing “bong”?

#1904

A lowpass gate helps. I can’t remember the exact patch, but it’s definitely possible…

This features one I cooked up a while back using rings and Optimix.

https://soundcloud.com/by0/broken-windows

#1905

Currently trying to “finish” my system because I like the idea of having an instrument to master rather than an ever growing collection of modules. To do that, I’m trying to take inspiration from existing instruments and these last days I’ve really been into Madrona Labs synths because of their sound, layout and overall philosophy. I’ve worked on my own version of Aalto using as many as my modules as possible, and I ended very happy because for what I’ve come up with I only need to add a Mimeophon and a Befaco out (and that beaufiful Modulaire Maritime 68hp case). I will to sequence it with my Digitone, Octatrack or computer.

So I would love to have your feedback, what do you think of having such a “small” system? Do you think it lacks anything? What would you change?

3 Likes
#1906

It looks like a great little system, you have your bases covered. I’ve had great fun and been productive with a system that’s about that same size and targeting the same overall architecture.

My only observation is that, while “you can never have too many VCAs” is a common adage, you sure do have a lot for such a small system. You could probably dispense with the 3x VCA and still be well off, giving you more room for maybe some bigger modules. (It does look a bit cramped.)

1 Like
#1907

Haha, I agree with the VCA point, I ended up there because my first one was the Quad VCA then I realised a Shades/3x VCA combination made more sense in my current 3U/84hp, but I never sold the Quad.

I rationalise having so many of them with the fact that they all bring a bit more than just amplification, they can be used for submixing, Quad VCA has a nice distorsion, Moddemix adds color too and can be used for ring modulation. I think I have good reasons to keep them all for now, but thanks a lot for the feedback!
(But I must admit I would really love to make room for Cold Mac, it looks like such a powerful module!)

#1908

You definitely have more VCAs than I would be able to put to use in a system of that size and you’re missing some utilities that I would probably want (clock dividers, switches) but if it’s working for you then there’s no reason to change unless you really feel like you’re missing something. It’s all pretty dependent on how you patch - I have a 15u system and have the same number of VCAs as you but I have a bunch of switches, crossfaders (which can also be used as VCAs) along with modules like Cold Mac which can be used as a VCA in a pinch. Also a large portion of my system (about 6u) is dedicated to sequencing so that means I use less VCAs.

1 Like
#1909

FH-2 with DIN expander