Eurorack: discussion, advice, learning, questions

[srogers91]

Plaits does have a built in vca though so you don’t really need one for a complete voice there.

The Happy Nerding 3X VCA might be a good compromise. I agree that having more vcas at the ready would always be the preferable option but that’s the tough thing about small systems; it totally does depend on your patching style and what kind of music you’re trying to make.

I have five vcas in two 104hp rows and never really feel tapped out. It also helps that nearly all my voices have vcas built in (Mangrove, Rings, Plaits, Just Friends) so that I have some extra vcas at my disposal for cv manipulation.

[grey]

The problem in my mind is that the Mutant Brain is overkill for 84hp, not that the case needs a mess of VCA’s to make Mutant Brain useful.

It’d be helpful if @Martebar was more clear on what they were hoping to accomplish, which is always my first question on any deeper kind of interrogation.

To me it reads like a “I want to know what this modular synthesis deal is all about, but I’m already invested in other music gear,” kind of case. So they’ve splashed some popular “basics” modules into a small case with a MIDI interface - not a value judgement, just seems like that kind of case.

[Starthief]

A good point. CV.OCD might be a nice alternative to Mutant Brain, since it has the same functionality but doesn’t take up rack space. Runs off of daisy-chained pedal power too if you’re using pedals.

[Martebar]

Wow, did not expect so many answers! @Starthief @grey @srogers91 @Autogeneric @ElectricaNada Thank you!
Honestly, my system is based on the architecture of a few basic synth voices, it’s a classic two oscillator, one filter, two modulation sources system, with one source of randomness, one mixer, one VCA basically. I looked at the Korg MS-20 and the Doepfer A-100 mini and just built something very similar but with more “exotic” modules. And then I saw the Random*Serge Mantra and it comforted me in my architecture and my desire to have a sequencer in there.
I agree that the Mutant Brain is overkill for one case use, but I have the Octatrack, the Digitone and a computer, and I want to be able to change my way of sequencing the synth depending on the session, so there are times I only use a 1/4th clock coming for it, others I use the 4 CV for pitch and velocity, and then others again where I combine gates using of polymetric patterns with kinks, so I’m pretty comfortable with my case, the idea is not to use everything all the time (although it could be a cool challenge) but to have open possibilities in a limited size. And I would say it’s pretty balanced.

[Autogeneric]

‘A mess of VCAs’?

The user has now said below that he has two velocity channels - that’ll mean four at least right, one for the envelope for each voice, one for the velocity (maybe three if you count plaits).

So then space is being taken by a module (triatt) that only mixes/attentuates. Perhaps there’s an opportunity to get more voltage control in there too?

Personally, I’m of the view that if you simply recreate a one-way signal path from a fixed architecture synth in modular, you’re missing half the fun. And paying over the odds when a fixed architecture synth would provide much more value. VCAs, Noise, Slew, Logic, etc help with this. But that’s just my view, others clearly differ.

[Martebar]

Well, i’m not recreating, I’m basing the choice of modules on them, which is not the same, just trying to have a balanced rack. I have looked at many prebuilt systems and semi modular synths to know which kind of modules were common in the most praised ones. But I’m not doing that to recreate a “one-way signal path” just the opposite, I really aim to deconstruct it and use it in odd ways. I mean, isn’t that the principle of even basic systems such as Doepfer ones?

[Autogeneric]

I’m sure it’s all fine - you asked for advice, I wanted to offer a different opinion to those you’d had already. It sounded like you were looking to use the VCAs for audio outputs only; this would miss much of the potential of modular, in my opinion.

As an simple example - you could take the noise source and use it to randomly ping an oscillator FM input - you’d need a VCA for that.

[kveye]

Or oscillator has an FM index pot and input

[Syeknom]

@Martebar

My beginner’s rack is very similar to your pick! Mutant Brain, Marbles, Plaits, Links, Maths, Pons Asinorum (4 LFOs/envelopes) and Veils (4 VCAs). It’s been mindblowingly fun and rewarding even if it’s not reaching the outer limits of what modular is capable of! The Mutant Brain made a ton of sense to me to unlock the power of my Digitakt/Digitone sequencers with it, and I quickly broke out of the mindset of “just” using it to straightforwardly sequence notes but integrating gates and cv throughout the system. Perhaps “overkill” for the small system but it’s all about just having fun for me. It helped everything click into place.

As somebody who doesn’t have a goal of Making Proper Music but simply coming home from work and having a blast jamming out, I’m not a big fan of demanding of oneself a concrete goal with this stuff. It’s a journey for me, not a destination!

Will definitely echo the poster who remarked that there’s a lot of CV, envelopes and modulation but not enough places for it to go - that’s how I’m feeling about my current setup as well. But that seems like a good problem to have for upcoming expansions to it

[Autogeneric]

You’d still need to shape the noise with a VCA to make it a burst though? Otherwise you’d have constant noise fm at the attentuated level?

Anyhow, I’ve shared my views, which are one perspective on this.

[kveye]

iirc fm index is usually a vca, nothing stops you from patching an envelope there

[Autogeneric]

Sorry, there’s a Osc which has a built in noise source and a VCA that opens that noise source onto an FM input? Which one is that? Is it in the rack we’re talking about?

[kveye]

Mood index on Godspeed is that.
http://endorphin.es/assets/es_godspeed_200106.pdf

Noise source comes separately ofc, from Plaits maybe In your mentioned case VCA is not a noise source either.

[Autogeneric]

Ah - fair point. That’s a nice oscillator for the size…

I know the VCA isn’t a noise source - I was suggesting that the noise source in kinks was used with a VCA and envelope to create a noise burst that could then used around the system, on an osc, but equally on a filter input for example. Or for AM on another VCA…

This was as an example of the kind of options you get. If the VCA is permanently wired to the FM input of an osc as an index control, you can’t then use it elsewhere.

[kveye]

Fair point also. I think from choosing these limitations and then from working within those comes creativity

[Martebar]

Oh don’t get me wrong, nothing is permanently wired to anything
And I understand the concern about the number of CVs, this will maybe bring a change in the future, but right now I’m interested in how those CV sources can cross modulated, how I can use envelopes, LFOs and sequences coming from Stages on Marbles for example, and a lot of self patching too, before going to the usual suspects

[909one]

I think the bottom row is better, and like mentioned above, I think that Instruo LFO thingy is overkill esp with Stages. You can do all of that with Stages. I think you should keep Kinks, its nice having a noise source with S&H built in and you’ll use those other functions here and there I would bet. I kinda fills the gap of not having something like Maths. With the extra space you could get something like LxD, for an extra flavor of VCA, its nice having really snappy vca’s and then something really slow and colored like lo pass gates in the LXD.

Or here’s a novel idea… keep some space open in the rack and wait to see what you need after you start patching this system for a while. No need to fill it all up.

[oot]

I find it very difficult to answer these types of questions about starter systems because of how individual this stuff is and how many modules there are out there, meaning it’s pretty much impossible to have meaningful experience with every comparable module of a similar type.

As the conversation here demonstrates, there’s so many, many ways to use these things that any one recommendation of “you should do this” or “you should get this” eventually invites a counter-argument of some sort. It’s fun conversation but I feel like if I weren’t so confident in what I wanted to do with my rack, I’d personally walk away more confused than before after reading a lot of this stuff.

I do have some general advice I think would be useful though:

• Don’t feel the need to fill your rack the first thing you do. Even if you have a specific goal for your system, you don’t know your style of patching until you start patching. It’s much easier to determine what you’re missing once you’ve used your system and felt those “I really wish it could do this” type of feelings.

• If you can’t decide on whether to get a particular module, just leave that space blank. You will know what to fill it with with experience. Or it didn’t need to be filled. Our eyes see a case not completely filled and assume something should be there but it’s hardly the case that what you need is ever going to be 104hp.

• Redundancy is okay. Some devices take time to learn to utilize fully, or to utilize at all.

• This is likely a more controversial opinion but I think bigger systems are easier for beginners. People like to talk about the freedom in modular but the way they reality is that it’s a restrictive format. Smaller systems take these restrictions to an extreme. These limitations are absolutely creatively stimulating and help you improve but it’s not how everyone learns. Obviously it depends on what you can afford but I wanted to point out the discrepancy between large systems looking complex and the complexity in workflow of smaller systems.

• Ergonomics are important. I don’t think your system has this problem as much as others but modules look a whole lot bigger on camera than they are in real life. Eurorack is a miniature system and certain smaller modules are nigh-unusable without some buffer space.

Generally though I think your system looks very playable, which is the only worry I would have with a starter system. There’s no obvious missing link.

[Martebar]

@909one Thanks for the answer, I already have Lxd but right now I’m just trying out multiple setups I’m interested in see what gels with me and decide what I’ll keep in the end.

@oot Thank you too for the very detailed response, I agree I should have put a lot more context, but I want to say that I was just asking a question about the mixer/VCA options and wondering how people were positionning themselves about that, not really asking for a critique of the system itself, which is something people seem to disregard. But yeah, I already have most of the modules, even more that are not in the rack right now because this is the setup I’m going to focus on for a while. Just wanted input from you all on whether you were on the side of Shades + uVCA, or Quad VCA

[rycolos]

I have an on and off relationship with Euro, usually dipping back in to make a standalone instrument, using that for a couple shows/albums, and then selling it off again. It’s a fun approach. So, I’m thinking of a new Euro project and I’d love some…feedback.

A feedback-based system centered around a R*S Resonant EQ. What I currently have is basically a Serge Audio Interface in Euro form. What else would you add? Sound sources would be the Res EQ feeding back on itself but also occasionally some loops or 0-coast. I haven’t done a ton of feedback patching in Euro, so I’m a bit unsure of what works well in loops.

So far I’m thinking a dual crossfader and maybe something like MI Kinks. Matrix mixer with some more CV sources? A filter? Cold Mac?!

I’m also not set at 60hp, willing to go up to 84 but I’d prefer to max out there.