I haven’t either, come to think of it; I’ve not used it with MIDI very much, really, but perhaps I should.

Yeah 0-Coast is such a great desktop synth. The only thing I didn’t actually live about it was the sound of the wavefolder, it sounded kinda thin to me. I also thought the LPG didn’t sound very LPG much like traditional LPG, compared to something like a Optomix. But adding vactrols to 0-Coast would have just upped the cost I’m sure.

i’m curious what the trapezoid outputs sound like, and if all those outputs are useful! :slight_smile:

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The trapezoid is sonically identical to a triangle. Just using the output by itself does not sound any different. However, I do like using it a lot for things like ring modulation, phase modulation and FM. It folds slightly differently and I like the sound. Hard to describe the actual difference though.

I will say that most of the outputs I haven’t found much use for. I don’t really know what to do with the same waveforms at different phases and I have tried things like crossfading between them but I haven’t found much interesting sound there.
I would trade them for oscillator sync and PWM in a heartbeat.

I think the main selling point is that it’s one of the cheapest analog oscillators that do TZFM and it does that well, if a bit finicky (but most of the other TZFM oscillators I’ve seen seem to also be quite finicky).

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I’ll be honest, I think you’re approaching euro completely wrong if you’re looking at the sum cost of individual modules and comparing that to the cost of a single semimodular for a given featureset…

Of course it’s going to be more expensive. There’s no reason it wouldn’t. But you’re better off sticking to fixed architectures or semimodulars if you’re building a “standard” subtractive voice or some such, the additional cost you pay with euro is the price for customizability and flexibility.

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I think there are a few other ways you could justify the cost of euro.

Being able to select the components you want is a pretty nifty. You can’t really choose what filter you put in your fixed arch synth. Ergonomics - e.g. one knob per function, or just simply being able to move things around where you want them. You could probably even justify it as a learning experience.
I have learned a ton about synthesis since getting into modular. Those reasons could still jive with building a “standard” subtractive euro.

But yeah, if you can’t articulate what advantage you’re getting for the extra cost of modular, its definitely not the most cost effective path to good results.

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Yeah I kinda disagree with that statement. These circuits can perform functions that can be identical whether or not they exist in a eurorack case or not. You are 100% getting a better deal if you buy them in a desktop module. The 0-Coast and Microvolt definitely are not just subtractive voices. Yes, you fully get more customization with a full euro system, but I don’t think not jumping into a fully modular system is going to lead you down the wrong path or anything like that. In the end they are all tools, and price is always a factor, at least for me. I started semi-modular and then bought a few modular pieces to compliment the semi stuff, in my own diy case with the cheapest power supply I could find. I’m fully modular right now, but I still use those tip-top power supplies with a diy case and everything works just great, no issues. I don’t think euro has to be that expensive and I don’t think you need to accept that fact to get into it.

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No one, at least not me, is disagreeing with you that a desktop module is going to be cheaper for the same functionality than a bunch of modules. Nor am I saying that euro has to be expensive. But it’s a little silly complaining that the sum of the parts is more expensive than an integrated system that contains all of the functions in one box. Even if we’re not looking at the boutique nature of most eurorack modules, or the utility from the flexibility and customizability, even BOM cost is going to be greater for a set of individual modules compared to an integrated system. That’s why I’m saying it’s silly to be looking and comparing costs.

Yeah but BOM and all that stuff is not the consumer’s concern. People make these kinds of decisions all the time when buying any product. Does this box do x,y and z? Does this collection of boxes do x,y and z? Which is cheaper? If all the consumer cares about is x,y,z it’s silly to say it’s silly to compare.

Except that if you compare on the basis of featureset alone, then, sure, that comparison makes sense. But it makes no sense when you factor in that that’s the cost you get for modularity.

I came to the conclusion that with modulars I personally pay for the user experience and not only features. It’s unique to the format. Functionality can be recreated elsewhere but not the UX.

Also I think featureset comparison works for mass produced things. Not exactly so with such a niche thing as modular.

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A good example of the cost differences between a fixed synth and modular is the Erica Synths Pico System III. There is a good chat at the start of DivKids intro video about it:

There are advantages to modular you just don’t get with a fixed synth, but those advantages do have an intrinsic cost. In my own journey, it took me a while to realise that I was willing to pay that cost for modularity, as it fit with what I wanted to do, for others they may be better off with a fixed synth.

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except: we’re talking about creative tools, and another whole pile of factors pop up here, which I could summarize as “taste”, “aesthetics”, and “feel”.

Feel, I suppose, is interface; you can take two different takes on a DUSG slope generator (for instance), that have the same back-of-box features, present them with different interfaces, and people respond to them very differently. Or: some people prioritise HP above all else and buy those bizarre micro-versions of open source modules; some people are more HP-rich, and prefer UI designed for fingers, rather than… tweezers. (See, my own bias is showing.) Or: I happen to greatly like jacks-by-what-they-do where possible, rather than just big patchbays, and so the Mother32 makes little intuitive sense to me in the way the 0-Coast makes its modularity very evident. But some people find the latter too… up-front about its difference from norms they know.

The most extreme version of this is “why not just use a laptop”, and I come back to my usual point: you have different ideas with different interfaces. I do things with patch cables I wouldn’t think to do with a mouse. And some people don’t, they are better at abstracting their intent from their hand, so they are totally comfortable - and creative - working in Reaktor.

Aesthetics: I guess I’m talking about sound rather than look, and again, this is super-subjective. Some people will buy the same circuit from a specific manufacturer or era simply because they think it sounds better. The FX pedal market is largely full of people making supposedly “irrational” decisions that are completely valid. If it sounds better, go for it! And if you think the same circuit sounds better in a different box, who am I to judge?

“Taste” is related to the last one. Just because two things do the same back-of-the-box thing doesn’t mean people will buy them. All the above rolls into it: do you like how it presents its metaphors? Do you care for the sound? Do you find the way it’s described infuriating, or mind-expanding? These are also important.

So: I find the 0-Coast compelling not just because it’s a bargain compared to the same features in Euro, but because it makes sense to me and excites me as an instrument. It’s consistent, encouraging, and playable; and it will take someone with knowledge only of subtractive Moog-style architecture on a fun journey into weirdness, starting from a place of safety. If you don’t go further than that, it’s a great thing on its own. But similarly, if you are already attracted to modular, and the flexible architecture, perhaps you’d rather invest in a longer journey. Assuming you can afford it, there are reasons to enjoy and prefer an entirely unfixed-architecture, beyond price.

This is a hugely long-winded way of saying that people are irrational, especially when it comes to creative endeavours. I have probably written these words elsewhere on Lines before.

(Also: when I have only gone on back-of-the-box checklists, and bought the thing that “does the same but is cheaper”, I’ve usually been disappointed.)

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Between these two places is where I find myself now. On first approach to modular I was hesitant and a bit overwhelmed by the sheer amount of options available to me so was grateful when Moog released the Mother and bought it as soon as it was available. Cranking the LFO to pulse width was one of those moments I’ll never forget. Electricity could be made to do that? Only after sometime did I realize that a complex osc could do that without breaking a sweat and offer so many more options in that way. So now I have the option of going even further in what compels me, more custom, more modular. Am I willing to give up this and that? Dunno. But it’s great to have the option.

I never hesitate to recommended semimodulars to beginners. They are utterly fantastic packages. But I think someone would probably want to try the Indian restaurant after enjoying the curry at the local canteen.

(And it’s no small amount of frustration for me that - for whatever reason, after many attempts - I don’t like the sound of the Ocoast.)

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hi!
i’m curious about doepfer a-130-2, any users of it here? does it keep silence when gain is fully closed or bleeding is audible? also there’s mute, same question. if gain is at 10, does mute totally closes signal?

Does anyone happen to know / have a source for the knobs Instruo uses? I love my Arbhar, but the indication line on the buffer selection knob doesn’t align with the settings. I’d quite like an encoder version of one of these knobs.

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Should be these ones:

https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/intellijel-black-knobs/

Although I’m not sure whether thonk ships currently.

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They do appear to be the skirted version of those. Thanks!

So, often get in these sort of ‘arguments’ on forums because I’m usually reading this stuff and responding while getting a break from watching my toddler as he watches Paw Patrol or something, so I’m probably not reading everything as closely as I can. But, I agree with everything everyone is saying here. I was purely trying to say that the consumer who is newer to synths may not understand or need the extraneous features that modules offer yet, so it does make sense to compare them to semi-modulars, and price should factor into that comparison. If I’m new to synths, it really doesn’t make much sense to jump into building a custom euro system when you can get a 0-Coast to decide if you are going to like the paradigm first.

As yes, I totally did this as well.

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Hi, I recently got a Monsoon Clouds and it’s awesome. However, the timestretch mode is acting really weird. I am comparing my results when using this mode to the DivKid video linked below. When he turns the dry wet to 50/50, there is almost no delay between the effected signal and the input, which is to be expected from a timestretch algorithm. When I tried this, there was a delay, several hundreds of MS long. Also, turning the size knob yields a timestretch effect in the video, but I tested it with a drum loop and it did practically nothing. However, the position knob seemed to work well for this.

What am I missing / doing wrong which would cause my module to behave differently? I have the original firmware, and the module is calibrated.

Thanks

Vid:

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