#1987

I’m not sure I’m understanting what you are saying… Could you develop it a little bit more, please?

#1988

I have the older model of ES-3 without illuminated jacks, and the newer ES-6 with them. Neither have given me any trouble. I did feel like the jacks on the Disting were a little loose but weren’t actually a problem.

#1989

With a “fixed architecture” synth, you’re going to have some largely pre-determined signal path (e.g., oscillator > filter > vca > effects), and then the number of voices is the number of those pre-determined paths that are supplied in the hardware. You can certainly reproduce a similar signal path on a modular synth, but you don’t have to, and you’ll miss out on a lot of the gestalt of modular synthesis if you only think in those terms.

For example, on the modular, you might have one part of a patch that begins with a modulated reverb that is feeding back on itself, with that signal running through a VCA that is being opened and closed stochastically by a burst generator, with that result being sent into a mixer, which is also mixing in an long sample loop, that is getting ducked by the same bursts, and the results are passing through a filter. Is that one voice or two? Or neither? Does it even matter?

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#1990

Sometimes a “voice” is 4 oscillators cross-modulating and a lot of other modulation and processing. Sometimes it’s just Maths looping at audio rate. Sometimes it’s an FX feedback patch that crossfades to a loop that the Bitwig Grid sampler is playing, controlled by Planar. Often a single sound source will be processed in different ways and become multiple voices. So it’s impossible to count voices except in the specific context of the recording.

Usually what l call a “voice” in that context is whatever corresponds to a channel in Bitwig, with its own level control.

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#1991

@Starthief, since we’re both using Bitwig, I’m curious: do you try to synchronize your modular and the Bitwig clock so everything neatly lines up on the timeline? I’ve had trouble finding a reliable approach.

#1992

I have the older model of ES-3 without illuminated jacks, and the newer ES-6 with them.

That’s the exact same setup I have, also never had any problems with jacks on either of them.

@Starthief, since we’re both using Bitwig, I’m curious: do you try to synchronize your modular and the Bitwig clock so everything neatly lines up on the timeline? I’ve had trouble finding a reliable approach.

I use Live, but I reckon it must be very similar. I use Silent Way and send a clock and start signal out from Live via ES-3 to the PNW, which then clocks most other things in my rack. I set a delay offset to the Silent Way-channel in Live to compensate for latency, which results in grid tight recordings.

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#1993

Do you find any overlap between Erbe-Verb and Mimeophon? I currently have no delay/reverb in my rack and have been thinking about the Mimeophon and the FX Aid, but that Erbe-Verb sound really grabs my ears.

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#1994

Yeah… while the concept is similar, the devil lurks in the details.

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#1995

I haven’t tried to strictly synchronize Bitwig to hardware. Usually I have no sync in either direction – keeping sequences on one “side” or the other and letting the other drone or be manually played.

Sometimes I’ve used the Grid to send clocks out of an ES-3 output, without worrying too much about latency – this is fine if I just want tempo-synced LFOs or delays for instance but the phase doesn’t matter. Or I’ll measure my clock tempo with Teletype and set the Bitwig transport to match and call it close enough.

Once I did something with S&H to keep CV sequences more or less in sync between Bitwig Grid and the modular, but I don’t remember the details.

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#1996

I love my maths for all of its fun tricks, but I’m thinking about moving it out of my 6u “focused performance case” and moving it into the 3u “extended utilities” bit (of course, those classifications are a bit of a LARP in the current climate, but what better time to dig deep on development?). The one irreplaceable bit, though, is the most straightforward functionality: THOSE ENVELOPES SNAP! Every time I sit down I’m like “Okay, I’m going to do this without using Maths as an EG” and twenty minutes later… “Fuck this, Maths time” and I’m back to having a blast…

I know (both from intuition and from hearing it said by @mdoudoroff ) that an envelope is an envelope is an envelope – these architectures are just creating shapes and it’s not like a VCA or LPG or effect where minute architectural differences really impact the sound, BUT there seems to be some kind of wizardry in the maths knob response that just… gives me what I want when I turn the knob in a way that stages (admittedly, I didn’t give it a fair shake), Tides (I tries real hard!), and JF (I own three, with the third hypothetically an EG for those related Amp/Mod Env magicks) just… haven’t been able to.

The simple question here is: What settings on JF will yield a nice plucky envelope? It seems to go from ‘limp wrist’ to ‘click’ pretty quickly but, intuitively, it seems like it ought to be able to do something that’ll satisfy my desire for everything always to be a pluck (unless modulated into a slewed attack, which occasionally happens). Alternative question runs: How might I accomplish this with the EG on O_c, if I’m wrong about JF’s potential in this department. It’s a lot of HP, and I’d love to have Maths freed up for some of its more in-depth functionality (complex EG patches with different outputs going different places as sort of a “master dynamics” control and the like which, when I’ve taken them as a start point, have felt much more like I’m using modular as modular, instead of using modular to emulate fixed architecture techniques; over the past year I’ve dug super-deep into more sophisticated and uniquely modular sequencing + fx, and I can feel the difference, but getting there with sound generation is a totally different game).

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#1997

Honestly, not really. The erbe-verb is very clear and has something metallic (not in a bad way imo) about it and the mimeophon seems like its darker sibling. I know that a lot of people use the halo on the mimeophon as a reverb but, to my ears, it’s very different from the erbe-verb.

My use case for the erbe-verb is usually giving space to sparser, high-register voices to make them last and ring out, which it does quite well. I often couple this with rythmically triggered long envelopes modulating the size, which adds a bit of structure.
The mimeophon usually acts as a straightforward delay that I heavily modulate using the voltage block to give me lots of character for whatever I run through. It’s also a wonderful chorus-like enhancer for everything from bass sounds to samples and a phenomenally unstable synth voice (so much so that I’ve contemplated getting another).

Both also warble quite well! If you like tape-like vibrato stuff, both do it in their own, interesting ways.

In writing this, I kind of realised that they are probably my favourite modules. They are endlessly playable, the whole modeless idea really works for me and I don’t think I’ll ever get sick of their sound. Together with QPAS, a morphagene and some modulation, I think I’d be quite happy.

(Make Noise isn’t paying me, I swear. Although, for another mimeophon, I’d sing their praises all day!)

//edit: Just to add, depending on how much you want to spend, the FX aid seems to have great reverbs as well, I don’t think you can make a wrong choice here.

5 Likes
#1998

Not really a direct answer to what you’re asking (sorry about that) but you could consider the delta-v from Cosmotronic.
It’s effectively the 2 envelopes from Maths, this time both with EOC and with an additional VCA for each channel. The curves it can create are pretty similar if not the same as Maths (I haven’t compared them on the scope yet, still want/need to do that).

#1999

I use the pulplogic “ctact” tile for amplifying line level signals and it works well. Not 1/4” tho…

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#2000

I wonder how much of the magic of Maths envelopes is just that they are +10V?

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#2001

I have a lot of voices (I think 11 oscillators + rings + er301), but don’t use that many in any single track. To me it’s more about being able to choose from different flavors.

I record up to 22 tracks on a mtk22 + up to 12 tracks internally on the er301.

I have a few effects in the system, but normally apply a bit of delay in reaper in the mixing process.

Please feel free to ask if you need details :smirk:

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#2002

Do you mean just “louder,” or that their pinning of inputs is making more complex shapes (ASRs)?

#2003

Just louder :mega: :mega:
(But that potential clipping could be a factor too!)

#2004

How do you route the eurorack outputs to the mtk22?
Delay to the whole mix?

#2005

Routing is via a nw2s unbalanced 16 channels db25 module (before that just looong cables).

Delay only on a very few things, mostly lead…

In the rack I have a pico dsp, clouds, monsoon, rainmaker and two echos. I also use an axoloti a lot with a granular reverb patch I made and sometimes a hall of fame 2 pedal.

1 Like
#2006

Thanks for the great reply. Yeah I am looking for something that feels more like an instrument and responds in fun ways to modulation, so both of the MN options seem great. I like the modeless idea too.

At the moment my HP budget is tighter than my money budget, which is a large part of why the FX Aid is appealing. I could definitely free up a bit of both, though, and get more MN - they haven’t let me down yet.