#122

Yeah, his stuff is great, especially this record. One of the reasons why Ive wanted an Easel. I think the limitations of the Easel bother me because I came from euro where I had much more granular tools like Maths and Stages, where you can pretty much do whatever you can think up. The irony is that I sold all that to buy an Easel partially because I wanted limitations but I just think the limitations of the Easel I’m finding annoying because it’s like really a step back. For example, you can’t directly trigger the envelope generator with a gate, you have to indirectly do it via the keyboard in, seq or pulser. It makes it more like a fixed architecture mono synth, which sorta pushes you in a certain direction of thinking and therefore the sounds you tend to make. I know I could buy the Toolbox or hack the card interface, but not sure if i’d rather just buy different stuff. I’m thinking I may rather have the ingredients that make the Easel so I can make Easel sounds when I want, but not when I don’t. I general my interest is heading a little more experimental too and I feel like the Easel is really good at melodic playing but not as good for really getting into more granular experimental stuff.

Fwiw, on the most recent Source of Uncertainty podcast, Jonny Woods talks about playing Buchla and not doing all the tropes that are associated with Buchla, ie… Bongos, etc… it really got my thinking about this stuff.

2 Likes
#123

I think you’d need the new one with midi to get the same range of stored voltages for MARF sampling. Using just the 218 would be too hands on, I think, when manipulation is needed elsewhere.

1 Like
#124

If you listen to my album Fusiform, most people would be surprised to read that it was created using a 208 and magnetic tape (for speed changes, overdubbing, and loops). The more recent Touch : Works for Solo Dancer is the 208 plus Buchla format Elements and Clouds, with a dash of norns for asynchronous looping/softcut…that’s it.

This is simply to better illustrate what I mean by my previous rambling - fairly simple tools, but ones which I’ve learned how to make the most of.

7 Likes
#125

Loudest warning builds exactly that.

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#126

Sounds fab - an inspiring example of limitation

#127

My best combo is Eurorack fo sequencing/modulation/sampling/looping/granulars and fm + analog from 5U/MU system. The latest provide a good difference. I prefer raw analog sound of MU chain than my best analog friend of Furthrrr to VSL filter to Verbos ATC (but them also great and characterful).

MU also provides a great UX with their big knobs. After some time of work with this system I find a beauty of details in sound during subtle changing knobs positions. Even Magneto sound a lot more “organic” with MU source :)))

#128

Hi!

It has been almost a month since my first post. During these weeks things have happened. I first decided to try a couple of modules from Random * Source: the Resonant EQ and the VCFQ, both in eurorack format. Both modules surprised me a lot, especially because of their ease of use. Somehow, both due to the super simple design of the panels and the structure of inputs and outputs, the handling is very direct. Very immediate. It’s like an evolution of what already happened to me with the Verbos modules, but increased.

After a few days I decided to go crazy. I sold my 3 Sisters, Just Friends, Cold Mac, Harmonic Oscillator, Bark Filter, Ornament & Crime, Shapeshifter, and Rainmaker. And the NTO, SSG, DUSG, VCM, a Matrix Mixer from Doepfer have arrived, and the NCOM, another RESEQ and a RING MOD are arriving. I can’t be happier. In the future the family will probably be expanded with a LA BESTIA II or something similar in banana format to have independent instruments. Or touch controllers. But so far the change has been super positive and it is keeping me from constantly looking at modules, brands or maker news. For the music I make, experimental or concrete, these modules are giving me new things. A new way to structure my head. They are apparently simple, but extremely complex soundly. And probably everything I do with them could be done with modules from other brands, but in my head something has “clicked”.

So for now the answer to my initial question is eurorack, but in SERGE mode. Thank you all for your advices.

9 Likes
#129

Nice. The R*S Eurorack Serge modules are just phenomenal. I recently got to give the Triple Waveshaper a try and it really offers something very different sonically from the VCM due to all of the CV inputs and mixing controls.

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#130

Yes, that one will probably come soon. I would like to end up with the whole R*S echosystem, and a couple of digital, sequencer and touch controller modules … like the ER-301, ER-101+102 and Minihorse/2x pressure points.

#131

So, I ended up finding 5 4u 4x4 Random Source panels. The DUSG, Carnivore, WM/Res Eq, Dual Filters and ‘Donks’, which is a stereo mixer like X-Pan combined with the LPG’s from a Buchla 292 and the Timbre section of the Easel.
I’m pretty smitten. What I love about the Serge stuff is the ‘patch programmability’, ie almost every module can be patched to be so many things. My journey has lead me from semi-modular to euro to a 208c Easel to this… and I feel like it combines thus far the best of all the things I liked about each. Variety from euro, but a uniform aesthetic unlike euro. 4u banana like Buchla is much more comfortable to patch with. Even a more complex patch on 4u is less crowded than euro because everything is more spread out. And the Serge sounds great. The Wave Multipliers are just so nice, and I’m not stuck with one hardwired type like I was in the Easel. The Easel has a very specific sound, which I still love, but if you don’t want that sound it’s hard to break away from it. With Serge there’s variety but there’s still a Serge sound.

I do still have a few euro controllers to control the Serge: 0-Ctrl, Marbles and Pressure Points. Because I still love all of those and there’s not any cheap options for Serge. The TKB is really expensive. I made a bunch of euro to banana cables and it works great anyway.

7 Likes
#132

One of the advantages that I see in the eurorack system when using the same Random * Source serge modules compared to their 4U brothers, is the possibility of connecting a cable to any output and recording that signal on a multitrack recorder. I suppose that with banana cables this alternative is not so simple, right? I understand that in 4U if we want to record a specific output we would have to lead it to a module that transforms that output into a jack with ground and signal … On the other hand, the advantage of the greater height of the 4U modules is translated, by what I see, in a higher density of knobs and jacks or at least similar to what can be in eurorack modules.

I ask all this to raise all the pros and cons of the 2 systems …

#133

You can use a simple banana to 1/4” cable or format jumbler (like the Low Gain boxes) to plug any output of 4u Serge to your mixer or interface… not really any harder.

2 Likes
#134

While there are lots of great modules out there by individual manufacturers and you can mix-and-match to get unique and interesting results, it’s a completely different experience working with a designed system with a clear philosophy and sound. It’s not for everyone because some design decisions make creating some kinds of sounds more natural than others. But if serge fits your music, it will always be a unique proposition with so many possibilities and constant new discoveries.

1 Like
#135

Ah! Ok. So I guess this banana to1/4 Jack cable puts the ground back to be able to send audio to an external interface?

#136

Yes, that’s what I’m trying to do with the Random*Source modules, but in eurorack format. I just copied the big 4U panel designs and ordered the same modules in 3U. The thing is that I would like to be able to use at least one digital module like the ER301 and the O/D sequencer (Er101+102) with this Euro Serge setup. In the near future I will buy one big 4U panel to see if I can go with one small digital boat for the O/D modules and the rest in 4U.

1 Like
#137

patching between devices with separate power needs a common ground.
not 100% but if you don’t use a format jumbler (which provides a ground banana socket to connect to serge psu) you need a split cable:
(1) 1/4” Jack to (2) banana. One banana (signal) connected to the tip and the other (ground) to the sleeve. The 1st banana sends audio between serge and an external audio device (eg. audio interface). The 2nd banana goes to the serge psu ground input.
You need to mark them, so a good practice is to use different color cables.
In this way you ground the serge & the external audio device (eurorack system / audio interface etc) to a common ground.
If your device has multiple audio in/outs you only need one split cable.
If you need multiple connections you can take long stackable banana cables, cut in two, and wire at each edge a 1/4" Jack.

2 Likes
#138

Ok! I see … So for several audio connections all the split cables should share the same banana ground connection … I guess that’s something more straight forward in eurorack as all cables have a ground connection … But then you have the problem with the hot signals and audio interfaces …

#139

So for my setup, I actually diy-ed some cables to go from Serge to Euro, because aside from the connections the power is the same. I don’t have any grounding issues now either because they are grounded to the same point, except for the 0-Ctrl which has its own supply. All you have to do is connect a cable to something euro and that’s grounded as well, if you don’t it does all sorts of weird things and makes odd noises.

#140

You’d only need one split cable to ground the two systems together, then all the other connections are just single-cable regular audio.

I use a Low-Gain jumbler, which has a ground connection on it. So I connect the jumbler ground to my Serge power supply, then I can happily connect as many signal cables as I want …

The down side to the 3.5mm cables in Eurorack is that they click/pop when patching, where banana cables do not… Banana’s also allow for near infinite stacking, touching the ends with your hand to control signals, and lots of other fun stuff :slight_smile:

2 Likes
#141

If I may appropriate this thread for a moment…

I posted a bit about this in the Serge thread but my focus has narrowed a bit so I wanted to bring it here. Basically I’ve decided that my next purchase is going to be either an Easel or a Serge panel (LW’s Sing to Me) - both are almost certainly in my future but I’m having trouble deciding which to go for first. What I want to do is make music that is largely experimental and/or drone-y but with the ability to bring in strong tonal & melodic elements.

I’ve wanted an Easel for a long time and have just recently properly discovered Serge, but I’m a little worried an Easel will be a bit sonically limiting. I’ve actually read a lot of @909one’s comments about this, which pointed me to that Johnny Woods interview where he says that a ton of Easel recordings all kinda sound the same. I’ve spent the last couple weeks scouring the internet for audio & video and there really are a ton of uninspiring Easel tracks out there, just bongos and 5 step sequences with predictable fm and timbral sweeps. Although there are a lot of Easel tracks/records I do really appreciate that break the paradigm a bit (notably Charles Cohen’s A Retrospective and Sean Julian’s Sounds of the Birch Forest, among others), most of my favorite Buchla tracks are with bigger 200e systems (which is not a path I’m ready to go down). I worry about not being truly satisfied with what I’m able to produce sonically with the Easel, but its “completeness” as an instrument and self contained workflow are incredibly appealing.

I realize Serge has a “sound” also but it seems to be a lot more versatile and not so easily immediately identifiable as the Easel. I absolutely love a lot of the Serge sounds I’ve heard and I think they resonate with me more than that of the Easel. I’ve been really impressed by the more experimental sounds like chirping birds/water droplets/feedback/etc and by the raw and massive sounds of the oscillators/cycling envelopes. My worry with the Serge is that I won’t have quite as much control as I’d like, at least not immediately without a second panel (mostly thinking about sequencing and playability here).

Anyway, apologies for the rambling - just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone had any insight. As I said it’s likely I’ll end up with both down the line, just struggling to decide which to go with first as it’ll probably be a while before I’d be financially ready for the other.

1 Like