#86

I think standard midi is 8 bit 0-127

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#87

No worries, my friend!

To be fair, it felt fine enough when I tried the demo. My experience with 12-bit resolution just comes from my general experience working with digital controllers. It could very well be that 12-bits is good enough for a device like this.

Not sure if you are talking about the smoothing filter, or without the filter.

Zipper Noise is a common audio artifact that occurs when you use a quantized digital signal with a low resolution.

Smoothing filters essentially take a running average of the input signal, so this causes a certain kind of lag to happen. It’s so common in digital plugins and instruments that we are really used to this.

IIRC, Arc is at least 1024 steps per rotation (maybe more), so that’s like 10 bits? In this situation, it actually works really well. Mainly due to the fact that it has an infinite scroll gives it the feeling of infinite resolution.

MPE uses the MIDI pitch bend messages, which is 14-bit (double the usual message which is 7 bit). This is usually pretty good for most kinds of interfaces.

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#88

I’ve had one for a while- the resolution has never at all felt like a weakness, I’ve never used a controller that felt so responsive. it is exceptionally sensitive and, well, expressive, certainly nothing close to any kind of aliasing. I mean, people get by doing things with 127 values of midi control…so 4096 is more than enough…

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#89

Standard MIDI is 7 bit (2^7 = 128 levels), though some devices can pair MIDI messages to get 14-bits.

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#90

Hi guys! I’m wondering how the Expressive E Touche compares to the Seaboard when it comes to performing subtle modulations? Anyone has experience with both?

#91

I suspect it matters what you’re modulating. I have a seaboard block and it works great with roli vsts but takes a lot of taming to make eurorack work well

#92

Yeah, that’s the thing I use Reason for - it makes it easy to redirect the MIDI data to other devices. I guess I’m asking more how they feel like, compared to each other. I own a Seaboard Block but I’m thinking about getting the Touche as well if there’s not too much overlap, performance-wise.

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#93

Has anyone used the USB-only Touche SE? It’s more affordable than the CV version, and I figure I could set it up as a controller in Bitwig, and then convert to CV with Expert Sleepers ES-3.

I’m considering a bunch of different touch/pressure options at the moment, and that seems like one of the most promising if it works well.

#94

If you in any case will have a computer nearby for the conversion, and being hardware-only with the touché isn’t important, I guess it’s a very viable option. All the haptics and response should be exactly the same as with the Touché.

I love my Touché, it makes everything feel so much more alive. For me the Touché SE would add too much of a hassle to everyday use but I can totally understand its appeal.

FWIW, of course I still need a computer with mine, for setting up, but it’s only when I need to change the way I use it.

#95

I’m not computer-averse at all, and use a DAW for a mixer, effects, recording and sometimes a key part of modular patches.

I could see maybe wanting to play live with just a Lyra-8 and a couple of pedals, sans computer and Eurorack… but that’s extremely hypothetical right now.

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#96

Makes total sense. The SE would seem like a great option for you then. I can’t recommend it highly enough for that extra touch and control of your sound.

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#97

My Touché SE arrived yesterday. I’m very glad I went for it!

I was unimpressed by the included UVI instrument – the Touché presets for it weren’t even a good demo of its expressiveness – and the annoying PACE protection required to run it. I’m probably never going to need Lié again unless I need to reinstall.

But it works really well in Bitwig via its MIDI modulators (not the awkward MIDI learn feature!). I’ve set up an FX Grid preset to send them to CV outs on the ES-3, as well as basic but extremely fun and expressive Ondes Martenot style patches for Aalto, FM-4 and my Reface CS.

Using CV with the Lyra-8 requires considerable tweaking of offsets and ranges anyway, so I have no regrets about getting the SE version :slight_smile:

6 Likes
#98

A year in:
The Touché is a standard part of my live set/performance setup. Originally I experimented with some other controllers (hiwatt echo theremin for FM paired with an envelope follower for vol, XY controllers, volume pedals, etc) but wasn’t happy with the dynamics and single/two dimensions of control. I’m exclusively using it with a Buchla system via a format jumbler. It does 0-10v so it’s friendly with the CV.

Super expressive, really easy to fine tune (you can immediately adjust L/R tension and overall sensitivity without software), feels extremely natural. At it’s most basic it’s an easy way to control multiple parameters at once, and you can also do some really interesting things by taking advantage of the physics on the controller (add wobble/ringing to a pitch bend). I usually have tension set pretty low and sit my phone on top of it in the studio, which adds enough weight to pick up vibrations from from typing or bumping the table that normally wouldn’t impact it, which is fun and adds a nice responsive element to patches.

Two different voices I’ve been using it with lately:

  • a lead voice using a complex osc where right shift controls wavefolding depth, up controls OSC volume, down slows down modulation rate, left controls osc pitch (downward). Pretty straightforward but gives a nice range between a smooth osc, distortion from the wavefolding, whammy down, and a weird but natural ringing if tension is loose. It frees up my other hand to control the osc pitch by hand or do other things.
  • paired with a TSNM, function gen (LFO), and misc oscillators… TSNM pressure controls volume or mod depth., touche controls clock rate using right shift and timbre with upwards movement, other directions to misc things. This allows really natural adjustments in clock rate on the sequencer and arp.

I’ve also messed with using it as a Traktor controller which gets real weird, and controlling a sampler module which is an interesting path to go down especially with the springy physics triggering overdubs. Make custom curves and use it on things expecting an encoder or tailor the response to whatever CV you’re putting it into. You could absolutely use the custom curves to create a weirdo sequencer.

I kind of want a second one.

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#99

a lead voice using a complex osc where right shift controls wavefolding depth, up controls OSC volume, down slows down modulation rate, left controls osc pitch (downward). Pretty straightforward but gives a nice range between a smooth osc, distortion from the wavefolding, whammy down, and a weird but natural ringing if tension is loose. It frees up my other hand to control the osc pitch by hand or do other things.

Do you have any videos of this? Sounds great!

4 Likes
#100

Just made one… I’m deep into another patch I didn’t want to break down so this is pretty bare bones (one osc + vca in the mixer + delay) and not too subtle, but gives you an idea of the core of how I use it. Normally it’d be something along these lines, with some other mod sources for movement, and a volume pedal or FM or something like that. I tell people to think of it as a 4 way whammy.

Left: mod osc negative cv + mod depth, also negative
right: wavefolder depth positive
up: VCA level*
down: primary osc negative CV

this is also with sensitivity at the lowest setting, tension also low.

*this is a panning mixer channel hacked so it’s sided (it’s a VCA hard panned left), which is going through a delay. for the first 30 seconds the oscillator is also layered on an open channel that isn’t going thru the delay. for the last half it’s just the VCA channel thru delay.

2 Likes
#101

Follow up tall vid of some more goofing:

There’s 8 sensitivity levels. This shows 1, 4, 6, 8, again at lowest tension. All response curves are set to linear except volume which is log (on top of whatever curve the module CV inputs have). Normally I prefer medium/low sensitivity and medium tension and you can really lean into it.

I think the Touché marketing videos give a pretty accurate portrayal of how it works in a melodic context with their presets, and any half decent keyboard player should be able to achieve what they’re doing there (even the violin/strings videos). Obviously there’s different challenges if you’re using it with a modular and no keyboard, but they’ve really put a lot of thought into making it flexible enough to get deep with. I’m interested in more experiments with clock rate, creating cv “macros” or groups to control a bunch of stuff at once, sending pulses, using it with nord modular, etc and can post more as I do that.

6 Likes
#102

I have been generally using mine where up = dynamics, down = timbre, and left/right are both assigned to the same CC/CV.

Side movement is good for pitch bend, but also something like the time of a short delay, so it can act as vibrato with small quick movement, or slower and more subtle shifts that aren’t pitchy. Or the grain size of a pitch shifting plugin, Position on Rings, etc.

1 Like
#103

found a new use for mine with modular today-

vco -> vca
pressure up -> vca/lpg volume
pressure down -> slight pitch bend
pressure right -> quantizer (for me, rene) -> vco pitch

slewing the quantizer output a touch (or a lot) can be great too. makes the modular feel very alive in this way, and can sound a lot like reeded instruments. with varied levels of pretend wind-player precision as it were, with the down pressure controlling a little sloppy pitch bend or out of tune player :wink:

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#104

I really think I’m gonna end up getting one. Before I can actually buy @randy a soundplane, it’s actually the thing that makes the more “sense” to me from all the “MPE(ish)” (I know it’s not MPE) gestural controllers.

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#105

FWIW I’ve had mine since a few weeks after they became available. At first I used it primarily as a midi controller with, primarily, Zebra and occasionally custom Bidule stuff. That’s pretty much stopped due to the low resolution. It FEELS fantastic - I so wanted it to work, as it really has a level of physical<>musical connection that I find missing in even most MPE controllers that tout it - but in the end, for my purposes (which involve, I admit, an absurd amount of tiny-almost-imperceptible changes and nuance in performance - I’m one of those nuts who think they feel a difference using 14-bit velocity with pianoteq, but real or not, I DO feel it) the lack of resolution made it start to feel like other failed (for me) midi options. I would, however, not hesitate to use it to play music that did not require such. The physical feel is marvelous.
For CV, for whatever reason mine has been a bit finicky, and I haven’t spent enough time using it with my modular system, but when I"ve gotten it to work it’s been wonderful. And 12 bits seems ok for me. Not ideal, but about the same as someone else above noted - right at the threshold, which is better than most, maybe almost all, such options right now.