Field recording

[slowsounds]

ok so shotgun mics…
I’m in no rush so I don’t mind waiting around for a nice used deal to pop up, but I want to get an idea of what to keep an eye out for. There is a ton of info out there but a lot of it is focused on voiceover or film dialogue sound and I feel doing field recording for its own sake has a bit different concerns. More focus on overall sensitivity and flatness rather than pronounced dialogue range, not being so concerned with boom pole whoosh, low self noise and more reach (ok bad term here I know, but you get it…) being more important…
Most Rode’s can be found used for pretty cheap all the time so maybe wouldn’t make a bad intro but everyone seems to have the usual Rode complaints about say the NT2 as they do their studio mics- the kinda harsh Rode sound. Sennheiser ME66/64 seemed a good entry point and can also be found quite cheaply, but maybe outdated and a little noisy these days compared with the MKE600 or ME67. If anyone has any better options to consider at around that price point I’m curious - especially things on the compact side.

Also technique wise… I don’t know if anyone has tried this or there are any examples but I’m kind of curious about the idea of using “stereo” shotguns and mixing the material later. I guess the spacing couldn’t be super wide or you would have a weird hole in the middle but if they were just a bit spaced and then maybe mixed not hard left right after if you can kind a slightly wider image, or at least something less mono feeling, but still highly directional. For example I am on a peer and I want to record a boat or the wave chop further out on the water but still want to get a sense of natural hearing width but want to reject the more localized sounds of where I am standing or the surrounding environment. I have no idea if this just sounds ridiculous or creates weird phasing issues. Unfortunately I don’t have access to two of same shotgun to test this out myself at the moment. @timp you mentioned have a pair of Senn shotguns a while back on this thread - are you using them in some sort of stereo/dual config or just you have two and use one as a backup?

[timp]

I’m a bit of a rare case here, so with regards to my input keep in mind a few things (I spent 25 years working in the NZ film industry as a sound designer/40 feature films and 13 years ago started a sound library business HISSandaROAR which is my main job now, so a professional recordist for coming up 40 years but sound FX and AMB, not DX)

Back in 2011 I blogged an article ‘Gear for starting out field recording’ which had lots of comments from other people starting our and/or pros… While tech has evolved the ideas behind it haven’t so maybe worth a read & I won’t repeat it now (but quick summary: I’ve upgraded recorders many times, but mostly kept all my mics as I think of them like lenses - different mic/different result)
https://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/gear-for-starting-out-field-recording

My first mic was a 416 shotgun mic, and I used to borrow another, and it is so fun to record AMB with a shotgun mic in each hand!! You choose the stereo image by angling your mics, and being shotguns mics you also thereby reject what you do not want.

But my belief with recording is that it takes considerable effort (research, perseverance, access etc) to have your mics in front of a specificially useful and fascinating sound. So thats the difficult part, and once I am there I want to capture sound in multiple perspectives because I am capturing sound for use that I cannot predict (eg film sound design, video game sound etc)

So for example capturing ambiences I usually record a tight stereo pair of MKH8040 (short shotgun) in ORTF, a spaced omni pair of MKH8020 and a spaced pair of long shotgun mics MKH70. From these I can construct many perspectives & ‘feels’ eg the omni are diffuse so may suit a wide shot or particular acoustic/location, or for use as surround LR. The 8040s capture a tight stereo image, so if there is stereo movement in the field it will be well represented. But the long shotgun mics are like targetted pointillistic elements.

So say I am recording a beach ambience: 8040s capture tight stereo iamge of wave breaks etc, omnis get everything (brighter, more active) and the shotgun mics capture single wave breaks… I also consider this far more useful & better use of recorder channels than a single 5.1 mic for my purposes… I blogged about this specific aspect too:
https://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/ambiences-for-film

To add, your peer example is similar to how I think. If there are unwanted elements in a recording situation then I can use my mics directional polar response to minimise it. Unless I am capturing ambiences, then I mostly want to isolate and highlight the wanted sound while minimising the background. The main ways to achieve that are either proximity (have your mics close to the source) and/or directional mics, and shotgun mics are really the most directional you can get…

In terms of your worry of a ‘hole in the middle’ of the stereo image - you choose how much overlap there is between a pair of shotgun mics. So you could overlap the mics and have no hole in the middle, or go so wide as to be seperate… Dual mono is sometimes more interesting than a stereo image eg recording a river if I was using 2 shotgun mics I would capture a nice stereo image, and then do a second recording capturing completely seperate elements ie discrete elements in L and R. These often sound much more interesting than a static stereo image of a diffuse sound, and provides options for later use…

[maceq687]

Anyone happen to work with Zoom H1 and Lom Uši and can confirm that H1 is able to power the Uši set?
I love working with MKH 416 and pair of NT5 with Zoom H4, but when I want to travel light I will compromise on my trusty old H1 based set. I’m considering adding Lom Uši to get the spaced pair option.

[slowsounds]

great, thanks for sharing your thoughts here and I’ll take a look at those articles of yours. a lot to think on!

Sounds like I’m def on a similar thought wave length here. Experimentation is king but its also always nice to know you arent going on a total wild goose chase where you’ll wind up with a ton of jumbled messes. I’ve been getting really interested in location recording and a bit on the studio side as well but again spaces intrigue me more… but what you are describing here overlaps a lot with what caught me more about classical recording and trying to find ways of applying those techniques to other areas that I feel could get interesting results - particularly different phased arrays and combining them.

As for the center hole thing, you make some good points. I’ve never messed much with post processing of my recordings unless I was totally mangling them. While I know it can be a touchy issue depending on how you want to look at things I’m not a purist so I should really look more at the ‘mixing’ side of this. I did some experiments the other day taking some live concert recordings for example recorded with different mic set ups, splitting them back to mono and trying out different balances for myself until I was able to get a satisfying mix of both stereo separate and filling in what I felt were some empty center spots. I’ve also been really meaning to sit down with the Rode soundfield software but that is another story.

[timp]

(sorry for providing so much back story, but… solutions for me, for my purposes are super specific & funded by my work… I really detest it when some ‘expert’ comes along & tries to say how things should be done - we each have different aims, budgets etc… Renting or borrowing mics is the best way to minimise risk/GAS i.e. try out the approach that you’re imagining, and then check the results in your own studio. YMMV!)

[derive]

i’ve successfully used an Uši pair with minijack connector cable and an H1n. I don’t know if that helps answer about the H1 exactly, but from a quick search it sounds like they both provide the same power.

[bobbcorr]

I really appreciated the deep-dive practicum - as someone who appreciates field recordings, it’s fun to learn more about how the high-end sausage gets made.

[edit: -1 points to Hufflepuff for using “appreciate” twice in the same sentence]

[slowsounds]

very true and good point on really trusting the ears above everything else. I’ve noticed the same when listening to examples of mics or different arrays - the typical this mic is too cheap it can’t sound good bias is to be expected… but also people saying certain positioning and arrays can’t possibly work due to phasing issues or will sound awful, but then you listen to the results someone got and sometimes they are just great. we can write all kind of papers on the math of why something should or shouldn’t sound good but rooms aren’t acoustically perfect, mics aren’t perfect linear systems, and neither are our ears. sometimes the thing just works even if according to the rules it shouldn’t.

by the way do you still find yourself using the Slik sprint mini stands? I was thinking about upgrading my Manfrotto now that the prices have come down so much on the carbon versions, but having something that packs down shorter to a more bike bag friendly size is appealing.

[timp]

Agree re techniques… Talking to a local veteran sound editor, he has some fascinating ideas eg he loves recording stereo with mismatched mics, and also loves burying mics at the beach!

I still have the Slik tripods somewhere - they are great for travel, but in NZ I mostly use Manfrotto nano stands - I bought a set of 5 so I could rig a 5.0 config although I do that rarely… And I use the bigger nano stands for the MKH70s as they are a big mics & will catch wind. This photo shows the two sizes of Nano stands I use… & also shows the kind of nerd I am - drive into Kahurangi National Park (very remote) & set this up as a test:

So much bird life - I recorded there for a few hours & once I got out of sight, some of the bird passbys etc are quite startling, as there is always a mic pair near them, even if not the ones I intended

Manfrotto 5001B Nano stand

Nano Lighting Stand, Black

Manfrotto 156BLB Black Mini Kit Stand

Black Aluminium Low Mini Pro Stand

For the Sanken CUX mics I indulged & bought a pair of the newer Manfrotto Carbon nano stands (they are lighter but more expensive)

Carbon Nanopole Stand

I also got a few quick release clamps for the mic stands - some Rycote ones & another brand from Amazon… they work well, and eg one is permanently on the stereo bar I use for the 8040s… Wrangling so many mics, I try to make set up & packing down as efficient as possible or it becomes a mess of cables etc…

I use a Peak Design Duffle Bag & it can fit all 7 mics & stands, and camera tripod… so can walk from car to location in one trip with recorder…

Travel Duffelpack 65L

I could use a smaller bag for the SDMixPre10 but it also contains batteries (NP75x2) headphones, (sometimes contact mics & preamp, or hydrophones) and 8 mic cables permanently attached, coiled and secured to the bag using velcro cable ties. Having cables permanently rigged, ID’d & ready to go is crucial for me.

[slowsounds]

great set up! thanks for sharing all of this.
I hadn’t seen those alu low stands - also a pretty good option for a lot of situations. I’m using the nano stand now but wanted something that can pack down a bit shorter. I might upgrade and get a carbon one now too since I’ll need more than one anyway. From the time when I bought my nano prices (at least here in Germany) have dropped - maybe due to very similar Chinese copies showing up on the market. I imagine when carrying that big of a set up any way to shave some weight per mic/stand adds up really fast. Those Rycote qr systems look really nice and stable. I was thinking of trying out the K&M or Gravity ones for a more budget option, but I do worry a bit about how much play they might have if put out in wind with a heavier mic on them.

mis-matched mics is something I’ve also been thinking about a lot and want to try out. I was thinking a shotgun/hyper c paired with an omni could give some useful results - kind of a poor man’s mid/side having a strong center focus with a non-stereo field around it.

[timp]

I think there is definitely a trade off between ‘flexibility’ and ‘convenience.’ For example Rycote make a single enclosure which can fit two MKH8040 in OTRF mode. Very convenient as its then a single point consistent stereo image captured. But my brain: you have got to be kidding! Who would commit those mics to a single use case, when you might go to record something and a fixed stereo image is far from the best approach. I always want the flexibility to rig my mics based on the actual reality of a recording situation ie listen before setting up mics and decide what sounds are the target, how will those sounds be used, what’s unwanted etc… A simple example: say I go to a machine workshop and want to record a lathe as it shreds metal. I could capture a single stereo image of the whole machine, choosing a focus & balance by placement & proximity. But alternatively, I might turn up & after having a listen to the machine operating realise I want one 8040 right by the cutting head, and the other 8040 by the motor, for the big clunks & whirrs etc… Then I can reconstruct the machine, or use individual elements, cleanly. The convenient mic rig can’t capture option 2 (without taking apart their mic rig & having a second set of suspensions etc) Same gear & cost, huge difference in flexibility…

[hawksquill]

@timp

I think there is definitely a trade off between ‘flexibility’ and ‘convenience.’

absolutely. i will say though that i have a cinela albert with a MKH8040 pair. it’s a new rig for me, and one of the core appeals is that it is very quick and easy to remove the albert cage and change the orientation of the mics on the fly. it doesnt quite meet the needs of your scenario, but feels well balanced between flexibility and convenience in its own right to me. im very impressed with cinela.

[Otavio_Savietto]

DIY rycote ws knockoff.

[tristan_louth_robins]

Last night, I made a spontaneous recording at the edge of a dam in Yankalilla where a cacophony of frogs were revelling in the aftermath of recent winter rains at the property.

I’m not expert on frog bioacoustics, so I’m only vaguely certain that the more dominant sound (the higher frequency energy in the spectrogram below) is that of the South Australia/Southern Brown Tree Frog.

However, I can’t recall hearing the lower-frequency (~0.8 to 1.2 kHz), guiro-sounding variety before.

UPDATE: It’s a Painted (Burrowing) Frog.

Full spectrogram:

Detail of the above, annotating the guiro-sounding frog:

I’m very pleased with the recording (made with a Zoom H3-VR rendered to binaural) and I’ll include the extended version on the Fleurieu & Kangaroo Island Sound Map, but I need further information for my field notes. Any thoughts are most welcome!

[Noisetrees]

Hey I’m in need of terminology/shopping help. I’d like to find a thing that I can attach on a tripod screw, between the tripod and a camera/disk recorder. I’ve found things that can have other tripod screws for attachments but I’m looking for something like a 30 cm stick that I can clip my clippy mics on. Do things like these exist? If so, what are they called? If not, should I just print a thing that suits me?

Thanks in advance!

[anon60283851]

If you mean a horizontal “spacer” for stereo recording, I have one of these for my Usis: 23550 Microphone bar | König & Meyer

[timp]

Is this anything like what you mean?

It’s built from a stereo bar with 4 mic attachments. The arms are carbon fibre boom arms, attached to the stereo bar using small camera ballheads… I had a pair of DPA4060 mics on the boom arms, simply using a bit of velcro to hold them in place.

[slowsounds]

the compactness of that tripod looks really good @timp - what kind is it? also kinda curious what you are using in that close a spacing in comparison to the 4060s.

[timp]

That was my travel rig from back in 2014, recording industrial ambiences in Japan…
The tripod is a Manfrotto BeFree travel tripod and the MKH8040 pair are in ORTF config
more pix & links to components used etc here:
https://www.musicofsound.co.nz/blog/rig

[Noisetrees]

Wonderful, thank you @anon60283851 & @timp