Frap Tools: The Thread

diodemover · 2022-04-24T09:15:46.014Z

x2mirko:

I personally don’t mind the legibility, even though I think it’s quite bad. I just don’t care about being able to read panel text or see symbols, because I tend to learn my modules very carefully and then just know what everything does.

Do you mind explaining more about why you think the legibility? I’ve always been curious about Frap Tools, and how they try to communicate with colors and whatnot (like Buchla), but have never dived deeper into it. (Though I’ve heard from other people that it becomes fairly intuitive once you understand the color system and everything.)

x2mirko · 2022-04-24T10:31:56.359Z

I think their color coding and symbols are quite cool (things like the two dots for bipolar vs. one dot for unipolar on falistri help). It totally works when you look at a well-lit image of the module. It’s more that the labels are pretty tiny and can get very hard to decipher in less than optimal lighting conditions when you’re not right in front of the module. Add to that the density of the modules (and a few patch cables) and it gets hard to make out anything (compared to other module manufacturers labeling). Again, I don’t care because I don’t depend on labels, but I can see why other people struggle with this…

philipbe · 2022-04-24T12:54:26.545Z

Thanks for making the thread, looking forward to seeing more replies. Around half my case is Frap Tools - I have one of each module except Fumana and the mixer master.

As someone still relatively new to Euro, a large part of the appeal to me was the quality and breadth of user resources Frap provides. I find the symbology/interfaces pretty easy to learn using the manual and some practice — the value of the videos for me was in showing technique and patching approaches.

Quick module thoughts:

Half the time I think that I can’t justify keeping Sapel when a Teletype script would cover many of the output types. But it is so direct/intuitive and is a great cross-patching partner with Marbles or other more deterministic/ASR style modulators.
The white section of Brenso is the one part of a frap tools module I can’t consistently keep in my head. That’s probably more a comment on the range/complexity of what it can do though - labels probably wouldn’t help much.
USTA’s control over individual step/stage length opens up a lot of possibilities. I’m sure this feature is in other battleship sequencers or by sequencing sequencers, but it was a huge new ability coming from simpler sequencers.
The mixer’s plethora of modulation options is a fantastic capability but one that I rarely make use of. I don’t feel like it’s core to their system and I’d probably rather gain those capabilities through patching of utilities. That said, the QSC is pretty compact and surprisingly ergonomic.

mattymattmatt · 2022-04-24T13:49:27.164Z

Thinking the CGM stuff through last night, I feel like QSC and Group would be good additions to the system, but MasterOne maybe feels redundant or unnecessary in my system (I’m in a performance case with IJ’s stereo out module handling final output).

Seems like I’m going to need some non-Frap VCAs in the case, and I’ll likely plop my Optomix in as well.

Voiron27 · 2022-04-24T13:49:50.353Z

x2mirko:

I’ve also owned pretty much every one of their modules at some point… But I have a very ambivalent opinion about Frap Tools

I think I’d echo most of what @x2mirko is saying, owning everything but the mix section as I do most mixing out of the rack. The approach and functionality I want is there but the trim pots are a hassle at times. I also find the panel wide layout of jacks lends itself to dense patching where you’re digging through cables more than other companies layouts. I do like a unified approach to jacks like Joranalogue myself but at the end of the day I’m still working with the Frap tools stuff and am happy doing so.

cbm · 2022-04-25T08:16:00.265Z

The Frap interface philosophy is discussed in this video, which I found helpful when I was first investigating Frap Tools. They have a lot of informative videos on YouTube & Instagram.

mattymattmatt · 2022-05-01T14:00:23.873Z

Couple weeks in here, and I’m finding the workflow more and more intuitive. Sapel is so beautiful. I realized yesterday that the Frap Tools system is probably my first (or at least purest) exposure to Buchla 200 series ideas, albeit with some really clever and thoughtful modifications.

These modules feel really slept on for some reason. I can’t figure out why (and I hope that this statement is not foreboding in some way )

Atograph · 2022-05-03T20:29:59.289Z

I’ve had a good experience with Frap Tools! What I’ve heard from most people is that the price scares them away, but they are very well thought out designs.

mattymattmatt · 2022-05-12T20:19:05.733Z

My goodness, the deeper I go with Sapel, the more I love it. What an absolute treasure.

Question for the group: is anyone using Frap’s modular case system? If so, what power supply works well with their modules? My intellijel case is not agreeing with some of the Frap stuff.

cbm · 2022-05-12T20:39:53.624Z

I’m using the Intellijel Performance Cases with a lot of Frap Tools modules without problem. The only Frap Tools module I don’t have is the Fumana.

What problems are you seeing?

mattymattmatt · 2022-05-12T21:35:46.557Z

Lots of weird noise and crosstalk. I’ll try to grab a recording next time I run into it!

cbm · 2022-05-12T21:48:35.723Z

What all do you have in your case? It might be some strange combination that is causing a problem.

My Frap Tools stuff is spread out over a couple cases, so maybe that’s helping? Mine looks like this (but you’ll have to imagine a WMD C4BN in the top 1u row):

ModularGrid

Dual 7u (May 2022)

Dual 7u (May 2022) - Eurorack Modular System from cbm

naxuu · 2022-05-12T22:03:25.116Z

Their modules can be surprisingly greedy in power consumption, particularly with -12V power which I sometimes can overlook.

Fumana: 430 mA +12V, 390 mA -12V
Brenso: 325 mA +12V, 235 mA -12V
Falistri: 170 mA +12V, 170 mA -12V
QSC: 170 mA +12V, 170 mA -12V

(just to list a few)

mattymattmatt · 2022-05-12T23:33:19.110Z

Here’s the case in question (though, oops, I’ve got a receive 2 in reality, not a transmit 2):

@naxuu wow, I hadn’t noticed, but you are totally right!

Also edit to say that, as these things go- since I sat down to investigate, it’s performed flawlessly. Of course!

cbm · 2022-05-12T23:56:03.201Z

I don’t see anything particularly problematic in the selection of modules in that case. If the problem resurfaces, it’s probably worth removing some modules to see if you can isolate it further.

rryy · 2022-05-13T00:26:37.514Z

I have Sapel, Falistri, and Fumana (+ 321) in an older Intellijel 7u with several digital modules from Instruo (Arbhar and Lubadh) and have had no noticeable issues with noise.

Aurelien_Valluet · 2022-07-28T13:16:51.628Z

Hello, what is your feedbacks about the fraptools qsc mixing modules (vs a wmd performer). ?
best regards.
Aurel

_bf · 2022-07-28T21:54:23.439Z

I’ve not used the WMD, but I like the features, sound, and expandable aspects of the Frap mixing line. Do you have specific questions? I find I’ve become invested in the CGM environment, although I don’t have individual channel modules.

cbm · 2022-07-28T22:36:53.859Z

I really like the CGM system. Mine currently looks like this:

It consists of six Stereo Channel modules, and an older Group and Master. I used to have a QSC, but I swapped it for Stereo Channel modules because I really wanted the channel outputs.

The tangle of Tendrils cover a pair of Boredbrain OPTX modules, which lets me send eight stereo stems to my DAW. This system is working very well for me.

_bf · 2022-07-28T23:38:58.502Z

cbm:

I used to have a QSC, but I swapped it for Stereo Channel modules because I really wanted the channel outputs.

I’ve debated this point, but I feel the jack placement on the QSCs are cleaner for working sends. I’d want to run the cv ins to more accessible offsets on the stereo channels and I’m not convinced I want to commit to that footprint.