492

I was at a Four Tet Q&A in a festival in Norway where I played years and years ago. One of the individual gems I remember is him saying he isn’t really the kind of guy who buys a lot of field recording gear and then goes on adventures to record all kinds of crazy sounds - because YouTube is full of cool ambiences, bird sounds and all kinds of weird things you can sample from already, so why bother?

(Coincidentally, that looks like the kind of setup I’ve made most of my little actual finished and released music on as well - just replace the turntable and a grid with a small keyboard and the table with a somewhat bigger one.)

I suppose I’m lucky I could never stand the kind of “YouTube product vlog” format that is prevalent these days. I get bored or irritated of people just speaking and speaking about some new thing, telling how something is so cool all the time and which features it has, maybe doing a little demo and then speaking on top of it, mentioning how something sucks and something else rocks, all the “subscribe now and ring the bell” type reminders, and so on and so on.

I’d rather listen to a simple “no talking” type runthrough or two from some random person who kind of knows what they’re doing, and read the manual or have a chat on online forums if I’m interested in specific features.

I do appreciate that people previously familiar from various online forums and lists, some musicians who frequent here, and artists I’ve listened to a lot during the years (Benn comes to mind) have interesting jobbies / jobs, they seem like nice people, and so on. But the “content” they make isn’t just for me (which doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have frequent GAS, I just don’t get that excited of the endless synthfluencer hype).

2 Likes
494

(Offtopic but) I suppose that’s why I only ever take “artsy” pictures of interesting details in things I see. I like recording sounds so I can capture some kind of personal POV on things, but for pictures it’s more like “meh, someone else has taken better pictures of the Alhambra anyway, I guess I’m still obliged to snap a photo that I’ll never look at again anyway”.

2 Likes
496

Interesting you see it as a “gem” while i see it as decadent. If he would gone out and make his own samples he might have been inspired to do something different. Everyone knows that when you do it yourself the satisfaction is much more intense and the relationship you have with your own material much more intimate.

People think “why bother” with everything nowadays and that’s not alright.

4 Likes
497

Ok this one actually turned into a bit of a rant. I would have considered making a new thread called something like “how can we change culture (online) to focus on originallity and quality instead of fitting in” but I am not posting enough to be allowed to do that so here we go :slight_smile:

I think also part of it is how you find videos on Youtube. There is not a really good filter / curration system so you end up with:

  • Things in you recommandations + related videos of what you are currently watching
  • Your subscriber feed
  • Things you search for

Then people posting on Youtube are trying to get people to watch their stuff, and peoples want to be seen.

People who subscribe to me will most likely see it because they check their subscriber feed

Tell everyone to subscribe and all that other stuff in every video

People don’t know who I am, but they search for products / it is easier to search for gear than music genre

Make videos featuring products, popular products to lure people in and watch your videos, and hopefulle subcribe because you told them to.

Youtube recommends you stuff similar to what you have allready been watching

Make videos about the same stuff as other people, copy their style, basicly try to be someone else.

Etc. etc. This all contributes to this circle of same same videos about products. I guess it is a bit similar to how a lot of people are making music to fit on a Spotify playlist. They just want to sound like everyone else to be part of the crowd. Sort of like music programming on the radio. Nothing that REALLY pleases anyone but easy enough that as few people as possible turn it off.

The problem is of course that we messure success by how many watched the video, not how much people who watched it liked it. So you end up playing the game of following the “youtube rules” to get lots of views.

And the sad thing is of course that it works :frowning:

F.ex. I made this video where I was flirting a bit with the format, but still tried to keep it “me”.

4700 views compared to my usual 150-350.

So I feel like if we want to have an alternative to this product driven content and find some great videos we need some other way of discovering it. Sometimes I find great stuff on CDM, sometimes by just searching for new artists I get recommended, and sometimes I find great stuff here on Lines. I would love to know some other ways of finding great stuff on Youtube, because there are SO much GREAT stuff on Youtube. It is just impossible to find between all the commersial stuff I am not that interested in.

OK RANT OVER…

On topic: I have not sold much, BUT learning to program my own instruments in Max etc. has really cut down my GAS :slight_smile:

9 Likes
499

I think for me it was just refreshing to hear a well known quirky independent artist to basically admit (or at least claim, we have no idea if he was just telling a funny half-truth) he isn’t one of those people who records birdsong in the rain in the early morning and then processes it with secret signal processing techniques, if he can find something that works in the context of a certain song easier than that. He’s still made a lot of novel and great sounding material during the years despite of that choice, and used to have a quite unique signature style among artists I’ve listened to, that must account for something.

If it’d been the latest hyped commercial hip hop producer saying that, it’d have sounded obvious and tired like “of course you lift stuff, you can hear that” - but for someone who is often applauded for a specific interesting aesthetic in a lot of his output and back then sounded like he was making micro collages out of all kinds of weird sound sources and making it work in an “accessible” indie context, it’s was kind of fun to hear the process and the workflow aren’t probably entirely stereotypical in all aspects.

In general, I do personally like both using synth presets and sample packs and just playing things, and going out and making my own instruments and recordings to sculpt sound from. But I draw happiness and inspiration (or endless frustration) from both in equal means. There’s quite a mystique in doing something in the way of “to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe” that I don’t quite buy - it can be super rewarding in the right circumstances, but it can also mean nothing if the main point of the process is somewhere else.

I suppose because of that, especially for people who are sort of expected to work like that based on their output, it’s fun to hear exceptions to the rule. I do perfectly understand everyone doesn’t like that, and would prefer to think people were more thorough in their recording / writing process :slight_smile:

(As an aside, I think he’s generally known for recording a lot of stuff himself and sort of recontextualizing it, apparently it just doesn’t apply to field recording…)

I’m responsible for at least one or two of those, back when I was considering an Organelle M. Hi!

14 Likes
500

Yeah I also remember him saying in an interview that his main source of the good feeling we are all searching for (not a direct quote, hehe) was just having made these cool records. He basicly just wanted to make some cool records. That was his thing. Which as a guy who also makes my field recordings be both a musical element and a fun activity, totally respects.

I also remember Mr. Bill talking about trying to get rid of this feeling of “ah I spent so much time making this sound, it HAS to be in the track”.

Hope you got some joy out of it! That was the intent, not to sell you an Organelle, hehe!

There is also another angle on it of course that with electronics our gear are our instruments. So it kind of makes sense to say “playing this instrument at this location”. But yeah, it is a bit hard to navigate both as a creater and a viewer. After I wrote the last posts here I went in to some of my videos and added “// Ableton Live, Max 8 & Max for Live”.

Back on topic sorta: In addition to learning some programming, focusing on tools that are super open and flexible to be used in different ways has also been a great success for keeping the same gear in stead of changing and getting now boxes.

Stuff like the Monome Grids, Faderfox controllers and my Linnstrument 128 are so open to be used in different ways that paired with Ableton Live, Max 8 & Max for Live I feel like I can make most of what i want instead of buying stuff. I have a bit of Eurorack in my studio as extra spice and stuff when I am producing, but I have stopped constantly lusting over new modules and boxes.

But I am a little curious about the fun setups I could build with thiiiiiis. Nonono back to work!

501

Kieran Hebdan’s philosophy of using minimal gear really came out in his talks with Jamie Lidell in this podcast episode. EP 78: FOUR TET — Jamie Lidell (HOWA - hanging out with audiophiles, can be found on all platforms, I suppose).

7 Likes
502

Personally, I disagree with this. I think it’s a case of different strokes for different folks. If Kieran Hebden was obsessing over the minutiae of capturing perfect field recordings, would he have had the time, space & energy to make the volume of records that he has?

8 Likes
503

That’s why I occasionally feel sort of like an outsider on this forum (not very seriously or as a critique, more in a personally funny way). There’s so much cool in-depth talk about process, field recording tricks, latest Norns scripts that do pseudostochastic sequencing to go with complex modular patches, granular lowercase techniques & so on, while my approach to music has been more like quoted - I’m kind of dumb and just like to make or play stuff, sometimes that includes more elaborate instruments / tools / techniques as well, often just slapping things together and seeing what works.

25 Likes
504

Broadly speaking, I find that the different strokes for different folks approach is a good way to approach the ideas one encounters here on lines and generally in the world.

My own practice tends to fall into the category of playing with various things until I get something I like. That leaves the door open to experimenting with a wide range of approaches, including very loose ones and relatively structured ones.

My personality runs to the looser side in some nice ways, despite some OCD and what the astrologically inclined might describe as Virgo tendencies…

But it’s great to find so many ways of thinking about, and making, music and other creative expressions here. I’m constantly surprised and inspired by the things folks share, even when the conversations get a bit frictional…. In fact that can be fun, until the mods step in, as is needed from time to time…

14 Likes
505

Maybe that is a good opportunity to contribute to the discussions in the releases category :slight_smile: Sure could need some more activity :slight_smile:

5 Likes
506

True, and I guess that’s why I mentioned the “outsider” feeling at least partially in jest - I feel I have kind of different focus and approach to music / art / science / GAS / what-have-you than most people who I actively engage with here, but I also very much enjoy reading and chatting about all these things despite that.

6 Likes
507

I’d be surprised if a general poll of our community members didn’t reveal a fairly high level of positive responses to the question “Do you experience a sense of being an ‘outsider’ in your day to day life?”

I sure do, always have done…

25 Likes
509

Physical spaces, and “scenes” about making connections over online showoffs or me talking about my studio with others!

I wish I had more local opportunities to engage, I’m not worried about exchanging creativity with guitar-y jam band-y types if they want to expand their concepts but rock and cover bands don’t seem as interested in live electronic music production :slight_smile:

Granted I am particular and intense, and it’s harder to find those who share my interest in niche artists, feelings, and aesthetics, I find a lot more overlap & entry in performance art or visual design for collaboration than music.

3 Likes
511

Thanks for the encouragement! I have nothing but appreciation for any way persons may connect with others, I have a hard time occasionally trying to break through the awkwardness of figuring out what others are seeking out or making things happen with merely the will to form out of the void :wink:

Banjo and electronic instruments vaguely brings the classic prog jam to mind- Journey of the Sorcerer (2013 Remaster) - YouTube

But also Legendary Pink Dots and Neofolk (the less fashy pagan elements, at least.)

I’d love to hear your stuff as well! Send some over and let’s chat. I’ve had a strong mental picture of a lonely fire, a wind-howled desert and a haunted mood, perhaps some spacious fingerpicking and drones could be a good impressionistic combo.

2 Likes
512

My two favourite banjo players are trans! Noelle Longhaul and Adrianne Cooper Smith.
I also play a little but not enough to consider myself a banjo player.

I also think a lot about electronic music as a modern parallel to the spaces folk music occupied in its hayday. Especially laptop music. Cheap or in some cases modified every day objects making music for nothing but the enjoyment of the player/ their friends. Often, instrunents that lack the need for formal training or institutional regulation.

5 Likes
513

The need of new gear is something I never experienced before starting with synths.
To think about that I wanted to start with the Korg Nanoseries2, ended up buying an OP-1 because of the reviews online, then I felt I needed a sequencer and got the OP-Z, then I discovered LUA and so wouldn’t you buy a norns + grid? And then it came the mixer with the TX-6 and the wallet is crying.
The funny thing is that I still have absolutely 0 ideas of what I’m doing

4 Likes
514

I’ve always wondered if instead of talent or starting from scratch instead of using other peoples’ sounds as a base, it’s rather about taste and direction. If your taste in music is the same as everyone else in the context of what you’re making, or your dream is to sound like (other) famous artists in “the scene”, then that’s probably what happens if you get good enough in that.

(And then again, I guess if you make something quirky and original enough, you won’t put that in a YouTube product demo… suppose that’s part of the “culture” part as well - on one hand people don’t necessarily use their best work in “here’s my YT gear video” type presentations, and on the other hand you probably get way more views with cookie-cutter type stuff in any case.)

Somehow reminds me of a friend of a friend way back, who released a free download EP called something like “Generic Internet Audio” that had “experimental” music produced with Csound patches he’d made. The funny / sarcasm was kind of underlined with the name or course, but still made me realize that whether you use presets and play the keyboard, or code your own algorithmic sequencers and synthesis patches, there’s an equal change you’re following some path well explored and the end result sounds familiar.

2 Likes
515

I have managed to destroy GAS by selling everything apart from the piano and a tiny set of modules that exist just to sample and live loop/mangle the piano. Whenever I desire something new I set an alarm for 12 weeks. By the 12 week point if I still want it I buy it. I haven’t bought anything yet.

30 Likes
516

I have a mental two month rule for everything I don’t really need as well (eg. pretty much all things related to music), but I still tend to break that regularly… both on the grounds that whatever I buy is usually something I’ve considered for months (“I’ve looked for a good reverb since January, I’m going to buy this specific one now because it fits the requirement”), or because someone I know offers me something that feels and sounds too interesting to pass (which is rare but still - my current main instrument is something I wouldn’t and couldn’t have gotten if my friend wasn’t getting rid of his).

At least I have less and less stuff around, and whatever things that get sold get “converted” to smaller amount of things. That doesn’t mean the buy and sell hobby has stopped, though.

2 Likes