Hemisphere Suite for Ornament and Crime has a thing called Enigma which sequences saved Turing Machines, which is thing worth mentioning, in case anyone wants to explore it.

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(note; I’m fairly sure I picked this up because @TomWhitwell & @disquiet were talking to each other on twitter - so apologies for randomly picking up someone else’s work & carrying on the conversation elsewhere…)

Reading this

& thinking about the modular I’m building for my “live”* setup

It occurs to me that if you wired all the outs from teletype/ansible to various Parameters AND generated sequences you could largely automate Tom’s script. I have messed about with generative synthesis before

(in this case every single note had its own randomly generated patch)

but this seems an interesting path - anyone know of other work in this vein - generative synthesis as well as sequencing…

*live from my office currently…one day to be seen in the currently fictional outside world…

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Interesting thread, but something about the premise bothers me. In a modular system, any sequencer at all can be used effectively in a generative patch. You don’t even require a sequencer at all to make a generative patch. For me, it’s much more fun to patch my own generators out of utility modules.

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I enjoyed the discipline of the project - ‘make this kind of noise now!’- with the fun/stress of interpreting strange & contradictory instructions. Beyond that it’s not really anything more than a bunch of random number generators

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The thread is not about modular systems specifically, it wasn’t even what I had in mind when I’d asked the question…

Sure, but modular techniques are now available in the DAWs. Bitwig especially is fruitful for patch programming.

I don’t think anyone who’s worked in a modular environment would disagree with this. But IMO it’s still interesting to look at sequencers that have some “generative” twist to them.

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Hi I am hoping in here because i am currently sequencer crazy so i was happy to see this thread.
I recently purchased Vector Sequencer from five12 because i really liked numerology and i did not have very good luck with the eloquencer and i have a make noise rene for that system.
I got a copy of Gregory Taylors sequencer tutorial and i recently also grabbed Klee, so i ave been trying different seqs with a varied level of success but the Vector sequencer is pretty darn interesting.

When we talk about “generative” – i usually think about Eno and the Cole Brothers and KOAN
what about you?

Squarp piramid is perfect for generative sequencing


It can handle different sequence all running to the same midi Chanel with different time signatures and has chance fx for per note. :+1:
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Oh I like to do that a lot with the OT, you can even route LFO to parameters of your sequences like notes, gate length, arpeggiator types, chord intervals and many more. And since everything goes through the arpeggiator’s scaler, it all sounds good.

I used this technique to get the evolving melodies on this track:

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I primarily use my Empress Zoia for generative sequencing. Rarely use it for effects actually lol.

I like syncing it to midi clock from my mpc live and creating a bunch of clock divisions and multiplications from that.

On clock start, it chooses a random gate from that selection, quantizes a random pitch, then use comparators and/or envelope followers to determine when the current note ends and then do it again and again. Sometimes I’ll have a sequential switch going on for the gates, or a probability for rotating amongst clock divisions or rotating amongst multiplications, throw rests in there, etc. Very fun stuff.

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Can this then be sent out via MIDI?

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Not exactly on topic, but I thought I’d offer my picture of what generative means to me.

My take on the term generative is that the material is generated, as opposed to composed or entered. This leaves almost anything where melody or rhythm emerges under that purview. The generation may be deterministic (chaotic or otherwise) or not, and at any level of abstraction: the key is that the material played isn’t composed or entered.

In the deterministic domain, the generator would be Algorithmic, be that a complex function or an iterative mechanism. The key would be that from some given initial state the result would be the same. For algorithms executed in the digital domain the end result of a chaotic dynamical system can remain consistent. An interesting middle ground would be to create a dynamically unstable arrangement of components in the analogue domain (a physical “strange attractor”). In this situation the behaviour is well understood, but divergent meaning the long time behaviour can’t be predicted (as the initial state can’t be sufficiently well reproduced and the system has noise).

In the non deterministic domain we have similarly Algorithmic approaches, where decisions are made based on randomness. Such approaches aren’t reproducible but may be constrained by applying that randomness to a deterministic system (e.g attenuate and quantize sampled and held noise for pitch). Given mechanisms to record snippets of the random stream one may freeze or repeat the behaviour as required.

As for abstraction and the previously mentioned danceability, I’d take a Euclidean rhythm generator as a good example. Rather than temporally random triggers, one can place triggers on some clock. The Euclidean subdivision parameters may be chosen algorithmically but the result always fits a conventional musical model. Combined with a quantizer you can get melody. Another abstraction might be a chord generator. It could generate a random pitch cloud (little harmony or temporal coherence), select a random chromatics (more conventional but not necessarily musical), a random chord type and root note (musical, but with no clear temporal direction), a random diatonic chord (musically well defined and easier to fit with other musical elements), or a random chord progression based on some algorithm (“always musical”). All these elements could be considered generative, but the control comes from the constraints we apply and algorithms we choose (either by programming, patching, or both).

In any case, what I’m driving at, is that generative, to me, is about finding a balance. You balance controllability, reproducibility, temporal coherence, musical structure (harmonic, melodic and rhythmic) and domain of generation against one another. In the end, where in that spectrum you choose to be, depends on your personal technical, artistic and aesthetic preferences.

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My motivation in the generative balance-seeking is finding (or building) compositional shortcuts. I think that’s okay to admit! Modular feels like a band-in-a-box and there’s only so much time I want to spend deliberating over composition over timbre, dynamics, etc., for each element.

Plus it feels very satisfying to find these structures (like Euclidean rhythms) where a small seed value immediately unfolds in complexity, especially in the emergent patterns when you get a few channels beating against each other!

I consider Teletype the ultimate tool for this purpose. My latest favorite trick is taking Clep Diaz and a slewed S&H into a mixer, then into a TT quantizer. Clep mix sets the range of your arpeggio, S&H mix controls the random deviations. Swap the mixer for a couple VCA channels controlled by TT Turing machine–now you’re cooking with gas! I’m still trying out a few different schemes for walking a map of chord progressions; the Turtle OP is great for this. The biggest issue with these complex patches is coming back to them months later undocumented, and potentially with hardware config changes :frowning: I have much love and curses to direct at the I2C ecosystem…

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This set of Reaktor Blocks looks pretty useful:

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Monome Teletype is all about generative sequencing! …if you code it

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Can confirm. Had them for a couple of weeks now, work nicely with Reaktor internally, other VSTs & hardware.

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I’m very intrigued by this: https://www.torsoelectronics.com/product/t-1

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Yes, that’s generally how I sync it to the rest of my music: zoia has midi in and out connectors. MPC midi out into zoia midi in, zoia midi out to, say, my Sirin. Zoia can also send cv out but the cv range for pitch is weird (-2.5 to +2.5 or something), so I often don’t bother.

That actually reminds of something else I like to do: send an actual sequence from my mpc and have the zoia determine whether it will play a given note of the sequence or it’s own thing.

Looks very cool. I’m interested to hear what is composed using it. Any idea of the price?