#163

15 posts were merged into an existing topic: Mungo Modules

Mungo Modules
#164

more wind instruments, first example has the r*s vcm middle section within the feedbackloop, some dc bias goes on the second input there. the instrument reacts quite heavy on pressure, overdrives etc.
second example is with exaggerated noise on the free d0 input. g0 as pitch shifted pseudo delay.

9 Likes
#165

Very nice!

Have you ever tried using a breath controller for playing wind patches? I’ve got a case with a pulp logic 1u row now, and I’ve been eyeing their breath controller tile with that in mind.

1 Like
#166

i had a ewi usb which i thought would be very nice to play such patches but i didn’t like it at all and the usbmidi to cv is just too steppy for such things. anyway now you reminded me that i actually ordered a pulp breath controller but as normal 3U module http://pulplogic.com/product/breath-control-2/
but something went wrong with the order, need to write to them.

edit: i played the trumpet for many years and so i always am eyeing on auctions of original steiner evi’s!

1 Like
#167

I created the wind instrument case after getting the Pulp Logic BC module (3U). It makes a huge difference in expression and I can’t recommend it enough.

1 Like
#168

I was experimenting with the Erbe-Verb last night and ended up in some quasi-physical modeling territory.

  • Gate from Rene into the input
  • Wet at 100%
  • Absorb in the 75-100% range
  • Decay to taste, I prefer the 75-100% range (accounting for that it goes to 120%)
  • Size to taste, though I think small-mid size setting sounded best
  • Tilt to control body resonance

Very much resonant metallic objects

2 Likes
#169

Finally! All the pieces are here and I managed to squeeze them in

IMG_20190602_143643
IMG_20190602_143643.jpg4160×3120 2 MB

I haven’t dared try the Mungo yet. I did the modification but I won’t get into details as we already moved the discussion to the other thread. First check with the CG Delay was underwhelming but I’m still finding my way around it, so I’ll reserve my judgement for later. So much physical modeling road to cover, so many things to study …

I think that 3 delay lines (counting the Comb filter) might be overkill. We’ll see. Right now I can’t decide between d0 and CG Products. They seem so unique.

3 Likes
#170

Nice!

YMMV, but I wouldn’t say 3 delays in a physical modeling setup is overkill at all. I’m pretty regularly using two delays to create bell/metalic sounds, and then a third to sort of give them some space. Or one for string vibration, one for body resonance, and one for effects.

2 Likes
#171

Well, I gathered as much from the patches suggested by Ron Berry (link earlier in this thread). I saw that he uses more than two delays at points, but it’s good to hear that you do the same. For now I decided against adding the WMD Gieger Counter and utilized the space by keeping both CG and Mungo delays in there - if nothing else I want to spend time and make a proper comparison (that will take time, so don’t hold your breath on that one).

Right now, case-wise, I’m torn between adding a reverb, extra compression, or an envelope follower. I’ve been listening to Emptyset, and their use of compression gave me some ideas about layering sounds inside the same patch and letting elements breathe in.

In case anyone is interested: I ordered

IMG_20190523_184222
IMG_20190523_184222.jpg3120×4160 850 KB
from Amazon. I’m sure similar information is readily available elsewhere, including some links in this thread, but the book includes information on playing techniques for each instrument being modeled, as well as sampling suggestions which could come in handy for use with the Play module by 2hp. Seems nice to have all the info under one roof.

6 Likes
#172

I don’t hate 2hp modules or mini knobs, but my chunky fingers couldn’t handle those three Mixes side by side like that. To me mix controls are often more important than tuning knobs once the patch is set up.

#173

Discovered a good pairing: park a 2hp Mix next door to 3 Sisters and leave it patched to provide high/center/low mix. Makes an excellent “tilt EQ” for physical modelling patches!

Another small discovery, Plaits vowels make excellent exciter material for d0 saxophone patching.

2 Likes
#174

By sampling suggestions, do you mean ways to sample your patch, or ways to use samples as exciters? Or something else?

#175

To be honest I’m trying to keep the case as is. I do have a 12hp matrix module on the way, mostly because it was cheap, but I find that having three 2hp mixers makes up for the lack of a decent matrix mixer module. Plus I have more inputs per output. Granted, the small knobs aren’t ideal, but so far I don’t mind them. I’d be hard pressed to perform using the feedback on the mixing side - and for that I prefer the small knobs, they are far more difficult to knock out of position during a performance.

So far I’ve had the best results using saw and vowels indeed!

To be honest, my initial idea was to use it for enhancement. Listen to how Colin Stetson utilizes the thumping of the saxophone valves to add percussive elements on his tracks. But lately, I have the 2hp there to use as an exciter, to fake some parts of the sound I can’t get without expanding too much (re: “spit” or attack on trumpet is a good example), or maybe even grab the sustained part as a sample and work with that? I don’t know what the smallest size of of sample I can use on the Play module but I’m hoping it’s doable.

The book describes areas of a sample (in terms of size etc) which would be useful when trying to sample each instrument. On the trumpet for example it suggests getting four samples per octave (re: every three semitones).

1 Like
#176

That’s a good point. :+1:

I found myself moving my 2hp Trim – which I had originally planned to just set aside – next to my new Filter 8. I love that filter, but the one thing it was missing was attenuation for its two inputs. I haven’t yet thought about applications of mixing the outputs though.

#177

I went with your advice yesterday. No specific patch or audio path in mind, I just patched as I saw fit, adding the Comb module in the feedback path of the CG Delay. You are absolutely right - the Comb module is marketed as a Comb filter or a short Delay line, both of which are correct, but I found that it makes for an excellent resonant space for other things to exist in.

Obviously these are no breaking news, but I’ve never conceptualized short Delays as larger resonant spaces, only as smaller resonant bodies. It seems the Comb is ideal for such a use, with just three parameters, it’s super easy to dial things in without too much fuss.

I’m having trouble finding how to properly use the Resonant EQ to recreate instrument bodies. I’m hoping that the book will have some information on the bands that get accented by the body of each instrument. But I’m wondering whether something like the new ADDAC603 Triple Band Pass filter is better suited to such a task since the frequencies of the bands aren’t static.

Also, general question: do you use DC offsets when modeling bowed string sounds or is it just for plucked strings?

#178

Oh yeah, delays are great for creating a sense of physical space, and tend to do so without crowding a mix the way reverbs can. I use both in my mixing, but if there’s a lot of sounds competing for attention I’ll use panned delays instead of reverb.

I’ve never really looked into the actual frequencies that various instrument bodies resonate at, but I use Three Sisters for that most of the time, and just dial in the settings until it sounds right. You want your filter bands’ resonance pushed just a little lower than if you wanted to ping them, so you’re almost hearing it ring out on its own when the sound goes through. Another thing that I’ve found works well is another short delay with a very low low-pass on it, so the CG Products one might be good to try that with. And using convolution is really easy and sounds excellent for this.

I haven’t found a good way to get a bowed string via the usual physical modeling patch-ways myself, so no DC offset for me there. Lately I’ve really liked the sound of one oscillator that’s both synced to, and FM’ed by, another and then sent through a low-pass if I want a nice bowed string.

1 Like
#179

Had an incredible experience with the DLD last night just doing simple Karplus stuff. d0 has spoiled me somewhat with the ability to adjust the slew rate (DLD made some pretty funky honks when changing pitch radically), but DLD really has a flexible architecture with extensive settings available. The built-in saturation keeps things sounding pretty nice, even when it was honking :smile: I’m surprised to see that audio rate DLD is not much discussed or demoed online!

2 Likes
#180

Ok, so, stupid question for the experts. I run into a solution for a patch problem I’ve been mulling over (re: rate of change) so I want to conjure up a small case that will do bowed instrument sounds. I’m going to cut corners by using Braids (I know, shame!) and my question is: if you had to choose between the 2hp LPF and the 2hp Comb filter, which one do you think would be more suited as a body filter for a stringed instrument?

I’m assuming Comb, but I’d appreciate your opinion. Can’t find anything else in 2-4hp to suit the task but I’m all ears. Maybe the Ladik F-110, which is a fixed filterbank would be ok? Or does it have to be resonant?

Yes, I don’t like gear questions either, but this is physical modeling so please pretend it isn’t one. :wink:

1 Like
Cold Mac Ideas
#181

I think you’d want a LPF and a short delay to pair with it. Any chance you can fit two 2hp modules in the setup?

And, funnily enough, I’m working on the same idea of an instrument that does bowed string sounds! I’m currently trying to come up with a way to patch a rate of change detector in the least possible hp so I’d love to hear how you’re approaching it. I actually reached out to Sandrine from SDS to see if she’d be interested in producing a controller module that does it all behind one panel but that’s probably a long shot.

So far I’ve been able to fit the pieces I’d need into 14hp which isn’t too bad. The lightstrip would be to control amplitude, and a ribbon controller along the bottom would be for the pitch:

2 Likes
#182

@smbols amazing how we think alike! I’m patching the rate of change more or less the same way, ASR and Min/Max to grab the change of “bow” values. :star_struck:

My take has broken the ASR part into 2 x S&H and a Trigger Delay as I happen to have all the necessary elements to make this patch into reality. I also like the idea of messing around with the delay times and experiment with the values. The Derivator ought to come in handy, although I’m thinking I might need an Envelope somewhere there to take advantage of its outputs.

I’m going to try both the Comb and the LPF, see how that works as a body. I’m not holding my breath for Braids as the source of the sound, but you never know. I really wish there was a small IR module out there, to plug an SD card with the IR of a violin and be done with it.

One slider is for the bow and one is for the pitch. Not sure if utilizing rate-of-change for the volume will work nicely; I doubt it. Which means I still haven’t covered the volume control … :thinking:

Sandrine (from SDS) is on vacation but I’m sure she’ll answer at some point. I reached out to ADDAC for a Rate-of-change module. I can also talk to Sandrine and ask.

3 Likes