#63

I think I’ve read on this topic nearly yearly since I even began with modular since 2011/2012.
Although it was usually people who had been into eurorack particularly since the “early days” more or less just whining about too many new people in eurorack especially.

Financially:
That bubble has already arrived, possibly even a few months ago. There’s nothing new you can get and hope to re-sell it at a set X% loss like you used to. We’re nearly at guitar pedal resale pricings.

Musically:
Definitely not, although can you say any music making equipment has reached a tipping point in terms of being used to create music ? I don’t think so…
The more people using a certain thing allows more information to be available, always a good thing!
Only recently i think has modular in general passed into the hands of musicians actually releasing music and being noticed.

Functionally:
I personally think the market itself is totally oversaturated with the same modules, I pretty much stopped buying any modular since 2015ish as there was ‘functionally’ very little new stuff that I didn’t already have. That said I went on an absolute rampage since getting into modular until then and had a huge system that i’ve been whittling down since, it’s still too much…

Theres always space for innovation!

I would not call this a new landscape though… although that’s my point of view, I’ve probably just been heavy into music equipment/recording for too long.

Good discussion!

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#64

I guess I just disagree then; I feel like modular (not strictly Eurorack or even hardware modular, but modular generally) does transcend current common non-modular ways of making music.

In my experience, people who use DAWs, VSTs, and fixed-architecture synths tend to have enormous blind spots about synthesis techniques and technology, and I include myself as of two years ago in that group. To a lesser extent, they are also led down particular compositional paths by MIDI and the piano roll. They are blissfully unaware of many of the artificial boundaries around that domain. Some of those boundaries are more visible than others – such as 12TET tuning, low resolution CC messages and limited expression, which have been pushed against.

Moving from that to working with modular synthesizers – researching what’s available and then actually patching and learning different techniques – was extremely eye-opening for me.

Conventional instruments suffice for making conventional music, and perhaps that will keep modular from really breaking through fully. I can see it being used as a sound design tool and then integrated with “less modular” music-making methods.

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#65

what’s being described has a heavy cultural context :slightly_smiling_face:

they didn’t have any tv in south africa until the 1970’s
cats in niger had a hard time even playing guitar in the 1990’s
this feels like the future now…
https://ifizu.bandcamp.com/track/protogif
https://youtu.be/aoWPAzOqjmA
https://vimeo.com/11435470

1 Like
#66

I do agree with you Brian: I find it disappointing to see that all this new technology so often fails at bringing new energy - maybe because the induced randomness caused by ever-increasing complexity has to do just as much with the module manufacturers as with the composers? I mean, learning a four string instrument such as a violin takes more than a lifetime, so learning “modular” when each module is made by a different person with a different philosophy…? In a way I get this constant impression of reification, in which the subject becomes, in fine, the object: to me the music business has changed target, from the music consumers, who won’t pay anymore to listen, to the music creators, who will use all their money in buying new modules, pedals, software, courses and specialized documentation. That could explain the peak for vinyls, modules, pedals and customized controllers as something we can’t hack, which makes money flow again in the business and will make each one of us unique without ever extinguishing our thirst…

If we are the market, can we expect fundamentally new music to come out?

Of course this is a rant, I am still expecting everyday to hear something that makes my jaw drop and am truly happy to follow discussions like this one.

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#67

It seems to me like capitalism, accelerating technological advances, the information age – have led to the expectation of innovation, in terms of both frequency and magnitude. We expect it of instrument makers and musicians. Things become obsolete. We expect new things, we expect newer and more disruptive new things.

Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring, when first performed, led to rioting. Can you imagine any musical performance in 2018 doing that? That’s not because Stravinsky was one of the last composers to do something new, it’s because it is not possible for anything to be new and different enough to shock people that much. That ship has sailed. There is no more future shock.

The first time I heard Skinny Puppy (“Rabies”) I was physically startled. I had a fight-or-flight response. I smashed the STOP button on my Walkman thinking it was damaged! That’s not a riot-starting level reaction, but it was still very intense. When I realized everything was okay, the music sounded like that on purpose, and neither the player nor myself were under attack, I rewound and gave it my full attention. No music has ever been that new and shocking to me since then – and now I sometimes listen to that same album at work, in the background. I’ve been to a couple of Skinny Puppy shows and not been shocked at all, just let it wash over me and enjoyed the recognition of songs I knew.

What would it take to sound new? Synthesizers have led us to accept that we can hear anything. Alternative tunings have been done. Every musical convention has been defied – not always to positive results.

That said, if you adjust your expectations, there is an infinity of new creations possible and they’re being made all the time. We are drowning in it. I heard music this morning that was new to me and it’s not even 8 AM.

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#69

nyege nyege tapes is such a fantastic label

#70

not trying to toot my own horn here, but i’m in a semi-popular band and sounds from my modular are all over our last record. it’s also hugely popular among my friends who are in bands, some of them much, much bigger than ours. we’re way past the point of it being so niche that people like beyoncé aren’t familiar with seeing one in a studio. if you think about it, famous musicians are pretty much the prime demographic for eurorack sales: a whole group of people who have a limitless gear budget and do nothing but hang out in studios all day trying to make new music.

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#71

For me, and I’m very new to this (a year of vcv rack and am still assembling my first modular set-up which was purchased last week), modular is more about working in partnership with the machines than mastery. That seems to be part of the desire for new modules: what voices and thoughts will they add to the discussion? What does The whole arrangement have to say to itself and the outside world?

Rather than a linear, modernist trajectory, I am thinking of it as a spiral, looping back to some of the ideas from Buchla and shape note singing and frippertronics etc. and looking for crossovers and connections.

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#72

[quote=“Kheone, post:71, topic:16063”]modular is more about working in partnership with the machines than mastery
[/quote]

That’s how I feel about it too. It’s something that doesn’t happen very much with software, and does a bit with acoustic instruments perhaps.

#73

Off the top of my head: Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, and Billy Corgan of Smashing Pumpkins have been working with modulars, including live, for 10+ years:

I also can recall a Panda Bear interview about recording with Daft Punk where he mentioned using their huge modular system.

I’ve been reading about huge alternative bands like those mentioned using modulars since I was in high school! :smile:

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#74

I don’t buy any arguments that convey software as being any less than hardware or acoustic instruments–whether that’s in the performer-to-instrument feedback loop or quality of resulting sound. I fully get that it’s not everyone’s priority to understand how to build technology, but in my opinion a musician’s interactions with software are heavily reliant on their technical skills.

Can’t wait for the day modular synths are seen as standard music gear, nothing like enduring at-length discussions filled with brand names and model numbers to close out a musical set.

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#75

110% support of this from me

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#76

I’ve been making music off and on with synths since the mid-80s, and spent 13 years making music entirely with VST plugins. I’ve also been a professional software developer since 1996, and have written a few VST plugins myself. I feel something when working with modular hardware that I don’t with software, and it has nothing to do with a lack of technical skills.

But I’m pretty tired of arguing about that at this point, so whatever.

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#77

please, I still haven’t recovered from watching bits of that live feed :smiley:

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#78

agree (!!!).

echoing the sentiments of some others here. form > tools. the best electronic tools will allow you to do what all the other best electronic tools can do. of course they’ll poke you in a certain direction, but poking the other way is really where creativity is for me.

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#79

have we seen anything in the last decade that really sparked a new direction or aesthetic?

Ironically, I think one of the strongest contenders here would be the led-button grid controller invented by… you and Kelli!

I realise that the music involved isn’t defined by the adoption of that hardware in quite the same way as was the case with (for example) the invention of the synthesiser, but I think there’s a distinct set of aesthetics here which are worth noting.

There’s the whole scene around using Launchpads as low-bit animation displays, stuff like Maschine and Push melding hardware and software and creating new ways of interacting with digital music-making, and a particular strain of soft-focus modular videos as outlined in this article https://pitchfork.com/thepitch/modular-synthesizer-videos-are-the-youtube-rabbit-hole-you-wont-want-to-leave/, all of which I think can trace their lineage back to those first monome videos.

1 Like
#80

this is a good point. i’m one to argue against the accessibility/legitimacy of modular because of what it requires from a person financially (i. e. more money than what i make right now), but the same can be said about stuff like pd/max. it requires much more technical skill and experience than what should be expected form the average person looking to get into the * nonlinear electronic music * scene.

I think there could be a better solution than either modular or code stuff. It probably lives on a computer, and it doesn’t require anyone to code right away, and has some solid integration with controllers for getting physical. ableton with m4l gets going in the right direction, but stuff like a master tempo always hanging around feels too prescriptive. anyway, hopefully something like that comes along someday.

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#81

20 characters of NI Reaktor

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#82

You can use metro object with any time interval you want without them being connected to the master tempo

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#83

i think we are just in a time when cottage industry took control kind of like indie rock and punk had an autonomy before major labels destroyed it. I do not think hip hop has avoided that pitfall either. BUT i am very pleased with the developments i am seeing with imprints/smaller labels and their curation bringing incredibly interesting “left field’ music to a larger audience. So there is this synergy between affordable electronics and the resurgence of analog both in gear and vinyl and you have a retro-hybrid media landscape re-territorializing itself. Now as it comes to Max/PD/Sc3/Reaktor – these tools have been doing what is now being mirrored in hardware for more than 20 years. I think 'eurorack” is just a happy coincidence. I DO think there is an influx of DEWDs [Disappointing Elitist White Dudes/Dicks] spewing their gear bullshit into stuff but that will fade as the medium concretizes again. i for one am very interested in connecting the soft/hard worlds with programming and disrupting things with an informed art history approach. This is why i feel myself drawn to the works of Felix K, Pokk! etc… and backing away quickly from the Deadmaus vibe which for me [maybe incorrectly mind you] represents a very DEWD like viewpoint. I am also not quick to assert new heroes or thrusting whomever or whoever up into spotlight based on gear, amount of releases, gender or national origin. I think we are on the cusp of a creative revolution [similar to Punk & HipHop] pre-industry tentacles for both the music and the technology of this cottage hybrid plateau.