Have we reached a 'tipping point' in modular synthesis?

[murray]

in my opinion a musician’s interactions with software are heavily reliant on their technical skills.

I’ve been making music off and on with synths since the mid-80s, and spent 13 years making music entirely with VST plugins. I’ve also been a professional software developer since 1996, and have written a few VST plugins myself. I feel something when working with modular hardware that I don’t with software, and it has nothing to do with a lack of technical skills.

But I’m pretty tired of arguing about that at this point, so whatever.

I’m asserting that idea to sit next to yours, that’s completely valid you don’t share the same perspective. But I too am a professional software developer with years of experience in both that and meddling with computer music. I play and own both modular synthesizers and acoustic instruments, but I believe each musically purposed device has its place and personality. And there’s much more to the music software world than simply VST’s or MIDI and that’s not mentioning the heavy hardware limitations of all the computers that are running software behind a lot of very capable hardware gear. The more I dive into other’s workflows for making music the more I realize how little I know about this whole thing we do in general and I can’t help but respect everybody’s struggle to settle on some musical technique/process.

in my opinion a musician’s interactions with software are heavily reliant on their technical skills.

this is a good point. i’m one to argue against the accessibility/legitimacy of modular because of what it requires from a person financially (i. e. more money than what i make right now), but the same can be said about stuff like pd/max. it requires much more technical skill and experience than what should be expected form the average person looking to get into the * nonlinear electronic music * scene.

I think there could be a better solution than either modular or code stuff. It probably lives on a computer, and it doesn’t require anyone to code right away, and has some solid integration with controllers for getting physical. ableton with m4l gets going in the right direction, but stuff like a master tempo always hanging around feels too prescriptive. anyway, hopefully something like that comes along someday.

There doesn’t seem to be a limit on the potential workflows so far, it’s probably important to support each other seeking out something that works for everyone’s self. I’ve seen some really cool ideas, music and videos coming from your explorations, stoked to see where you go

[n-So]

well don’t I look stupid somehow I did not think of those examples, modular synthesis was definitely a big part of Kid A and a ton of NIN for that matter as well, I know Trent has a lot of eurorack specifically. BUT despite those heavy hitters being modular users, I do still think modular synths are perceived as these weird mysterious things that the general public has little to no idea exists or what they do, and with the barriers to entry both technically and financially I think it’ll stay that way for a quite a while.

that aside, you can’t deny the growing popularity of eurorack among musicians. it will remain to be seen if this is a lasting surge or not, as I suspect that a big chunk of the rising interest is those who, for example, buy a rings and a clouds after watching a few youtube videos, only to discover that it’s much harder than one might initially think to produce some really impactful and coherant music with a modular system. it’s a journey that I have certainly enjoyed but many others likely find they don’t have the time, patience, money, or interest in synthesis enough to keep going.

[shreeswifty]

i think eurorack = big muff
radiohead = supertramp

etc…

[andrew]

thank u ! just throwing stuff into the internet void like us all

[ThurberMingus]

Ashamedly in this crew. Got into modular, fell in love, over-invested. Realized that I had overwhelmed myself and sold most of the rig to pad my bank account and start with a fresh pallet. This time around I’m going to pan out my purchases over months (vs days or weeks) and I’m going to learn all my modules better before trying something new.

[bradfromraleigh]

I can completely empathize with this. For a while, it seemed that modules were being developed so quickly and new ideas were sprouting up everywhere. It would be a week and already you were hearing new music with these things - everything was brand new. I can’t think of a time growing up playing guitar where this happened but we didn’t have social media and youtube to spur the GAS. Not that I didn’t want things when I was younger - I was just far more patient.

[Yann_Coppier]

Ah well, I agree of course. I mostly think new music has to come from a different edge than technological evolution, that’s basically it. Not sure yet of what it’ll be, but of course it’ll come. Think of Igorrr for instance, he is not using any advanced technology to make his music, yet many consider it groundbreaking… and I think it is possible to go way further. Still listening to Rite of Spring at least once per month by the way, always refreshing.

[coreyr]

Well, if we’re looking to the past for when new tech means the new sounds, we have to wait until it gets dumped on to the market cheap, or our kids find our racks dusty in the hall closet. The x0x machines didn’t reach their potential until they got dumped on the used market without manuals. Electro acoustic instruments didn’t change music that much until electric guitars got affordable. The g-funk sound didn’t happen with new expensive gear…

[soggybag]

I think modular synthesizers are having a resurgence and a lot of new modules are entering the market place giving us new sounds and new ways to play with sound. DIY ethos and access to cheap parts and manufacturing that was inaccessible in the past has made this possible.

That said I wouldn’t describe it as a Eurorack thing. Eurorack is like the VHS of modular synthesizers. Eurorack has beaten FracRack and 4u and 5u systems in popularity, it’s become the Kleenex of modular syntheizers. Eurorack doesn’t make music we make music with instruments in the Eurorack format.

The 3u by HP format has nothing to do with the underlying concepts like volts per octave and control voltage. It’s these concepts that are having resurgence due mostly to price and availability.

I’d like to characterize it as analog synthesis but there is much digital involved with modern modules it’s hard use the term. For this reason I’ve chosen the term modular synthesis.

[bradfromraleigh]

I think you can look to a cousin of the Eurorack format: VPR 500 Series (the API format) in the recording world. The primary benefits are the standardized size specs and cost savings in a standardized power supply, not to mention the miniaturization (less overall materials involved) for each individual product which still command healthy prices compared to their full-sized breathren. Eurorack fits this bill perfectly. There are competing formats (51x, SCA, and standard 19" rack units - each offer pros and cons) but I think 500 series is here to stay and has a deep product field.

From a marketing perspective, its hard to resist entering the eurorack space and from a developer perspective, its relatively easy to get a new idea out there (not many barriers to entry and the DIY vein runs deep). Eurorack may be the format of choice nowadays for the average person. I would have thought by now that we would see it permeate to other musical markets - especially guitar pedals. I think that will be the next bellwether to look for.

I realize that most module makers aren’t living large - the margins aren’t great. I do wonder if they are getting better. There seems to be a market premium associated with Eurorack and modular in general - you can buy a Korg Minilogue for the price of the latest Make Noise Sequencer. You can purchase a Sub37 and Prophet-6 for the price of a Shared System. 500 series makes a lot of sense if you are a home recordist looking for an economical entry into high-end hardware. Eurorack doesn’t yet present the same value proposition.

[TomWhitwell]

It’s not a market premium, it’s just scale. Korg might sell 50k Minilogues at £400 so they can get decent economies on the components, and spread the cost of tooling very thin. MakeNoise might - at a push - sell 1000 Renes at £400, so the unit costs are drastically different. Also, music chain retailers will sell Korg at a tiny margin, Euro dealers - at least until recently - take a higher margin on smaller scale in order to survive. If you buy Mutable from Thomann, the economics are different from buying from Schneider’s or London Modular. If the premium goes, the small-scale market collapses. That’s why boutique pedal makers sell the same kit (Alu box, switch, op amps) for 20x the Chinese makers.

[hamildad]

Drafted a few things, but none really capture my personal feelings adequately. Will try to get a few things down below.

The smaller (insular?) modular community of 2012 was a thing to be cherished and the high entry bar in terms of limited stock availability/retailers, limited case/power options and slow churn of new modules meant that those who had invested in the hardware were likely to have invested emotionally & socially as well as financially. (parallels with monome.org)

As this required investment decreased, there became less need to adhere to community norms, as transactions were between businesses and consumers and less about person to person interaction. However the stock increased and barriers (technical, geographical and financial) also dropped and even the introduction of modular grid made planning and managing a modular far easier for a beginner to understand.

This is overall a great thing, and there are many manufacturers that have been able to support family/pay off debts/give up day jobs as a result. That should never be forgotten.

The kick in the balls to major music tech companies is an incredible disruption to an established industry and seeing a small company be the talk of Superbooth, shows that inginuity and clever design is not dependent on R&D, but by the new connected world that the internet has created, as the difference is now that a smaller designer such as Instruo can sell and market globally.

Tipping point is in my opinion a pejorative term, but things are very different from five years ago, and what was once a village is now a city. Whether that is a good thing depends entirely on whether you like to know all your neighbours name and walk everywhere, or want 4 different arts venues close by and sustainable jobs for many people.

As with all people trying to navigate a new city, your mileage may vary.

[bradfromraleigh]

I completely agree. Market premium is the wrong term. I was speaking more to the consumer side of the equation. The fact that eurorack doesn’t necessarily represent a cheaper alternative to a full size setup is still an indication that the scale isn’t quite large enough to truly represent a “tipping point” if you will. It seems we are close, though. This is purely my anecdotal view from being a consumer.

[soggybag]

From my casual obersavtions eurorack kits look very expensive. I see kits that seem to cost very close to what the assembled module would sell for. The panels alone are $20 to $30!

[xenus_dad]

Knowing @TomWhitwell 's probable linguistic orientation, I’m going to guess he meant ‘kit’ as in gear as opposed to complete set of components that you assemble.

Let’s talk kits though. Kits aren’t cheap, it’s true. You have to think of what goes into those kits though. They have to design and manufacture the panels and boards. They have to source all the parts. Granted, up to this point they would have done this anyway. But now: count out all the parts. Individually bag them and label each bag. Double or triple check that everything is in the package because unlike built modules you can’t turn these on to test them, so if you forget to include something, you’re going to be paying $10 for shipping $0.40 of components to make it right.

You also have to write instructions that are clear enough for very amateur hobbyists to follow (I count myself among these). You will still be expected to support people who have made a mistake or missed a detail and don’t know how to adequately explain the problem or to even take decent resolution photos. Most manufacturers I know who engage with the DIY communities on MW and Facebook and the like do it wih patience and grace I probably couldn’t muster.

All this so you can sell something that is essentially eating into your bottom line from selling built modules. I think there’s a very good reason why full kits cost what they do.

Panels and boards are also not cheap to make, at least at the scales we’re operating at here. Getting time on the machinery is expensive. There are different strategies here. A good example to me is the oscillosaurus and magpie modular panels for Mutable modules. Oscilliosaurus largely uses PCB material. This is clever because it lets you take advantage of manufacturing that’s automated. The panels are attractive and reasonably priced. Magpie on the other hand look to be a multistep process. The raw panels themselves are certainly machined but there appears to be a multilayer screening process, sand blasting, and then sealing. (I do not manufacture panels so anyone with more knowledge, let me know if I’m off base here). The panels are beautiful and cost correspondingly more.

But not outrageously more! Things cost what they do because people need to make something approximating a living. I really don’t think anyone is rolling around in their money like Scrooge McDuck. They’re just trying to not starve.

[xenus_dad]

I mean, my 2013 “new” Maths bought at the beginning of 2018 was serial 5218 I think. Let’s be generous and say that was somewhat old stock and there were 6000 made when I bought mine. (Assuming sequential serials, pretty sure that’s what MN does.)

That’s 1200 manufactured per year, for one of the most popular and widely installed modules in eurorack. That’s the kind of scale we’re talking about here. That’s why things might seem pricey for what they are.

[TomWhitwell]

Kits are interesting psychologically because it’s so easy to price the components. You can look at mouser and say with some certainty what it would cost to buy the bits without the service layer provided by Thonk or whoever.
The exception is aluminium panels, which are a significant cost - if they cost $30 to sell it’s because they cost $15 to make, at least.
When I started Music Thing Modular, I imagined a distributed manufacturing model; i’d publish the eagle files, a Mouser cart and a pdf for a laser cutter, and individuals around the world would source their own kits (I wouldn’t make any money at all, which was a slight flaw in my plan). That’s how I published the first Turing Machine.
It didn’t work out quite like that - within hours, a guy on Muffs said ‘i’ll make kits of this, who wants to buy one?’ - quite a few people did, and that guy’s group buy became Thonk. I think a sizeable majority of Turing Machines have been made from kits, despite the simplest possible all DIY option being available. A side effect is that Steve runs a proper business, employs 5-6 people, pays me a generous royalty ( a percentage of profits from the sale of my modules), and is now operating at the scale where his costs are significantly lower than Mouser orders (he had 4-5 big boxes, each containing 50,000 sockets, last time I was there). Together, we do a lot of customer service when people get stuck - and there is a strong inverse correlation between the quality of kit production and the customer service time, so he can decide where to invest there.
In short, yes, there is a value and a cost associated to DIY kits, and with open source modules that cost is optional.

[TomWhitwell]

Another way of looking at this… is it more expensive to pay someone to solder some pots & sockets to a board, or to pay someone to put those pots and sockets into bags, label them, and provide customer service?

[Zedkah]

I think the price of equipment does map onto social groups and who is is it cheaply available to. If 20 odd £300 modules is out of a students budget then it is. This is a different question to whether this price is fair.
Or another way to putting it when or if did modular synthesis stop being middle class?

The obvious counter to this is that the price of other instruments is hardly cheaper. But the constant purchasing of electronic stuff is more like a habbit than a save up once kind of thing.

I think a tipping point implies an large growth in consumption or access somehow… Dont have access to any figures but id guess there is a steady expansion. Presumable this is a good thing- certainly better than the ukelele boom of a few years ago.

[Starthief]

I’ve been looking at Google Trends, and while it doesn’t necessarily reflect sales or use of modular synths, it’s not what I expected.

But then, look at this:

Most of the other “big” brand names in modular have words that make them too generic to pick out trends.